TXBDan Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2010 Posts: 6 Location: Boston Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Mar 1, 2010, 6:05pm Subject: preground is too fine for my setup :/
So i have a lowly Cafe Roma that normally serves me adequately.
I ordered two pounds of Black Cat Classic Espresso from Intelligentsia preground to "Espresso". I'm using a Krups nonpressurized filter in my Cafe Roma and the grind seems to be much to fine. Even if i don't tamp at all, simply tape the portafilter to level it, i'm getting 45second pulls. If i tamp at all it'll go a full minute or more.
Ground coffee goes stale in approximately 15 minutes. The more stale the coffee, the finer it needs to be. Intelligentsia probably ground it finer than you need, but not finer than (I'm guessing here) than a more "serious" machine.
geoffbeier Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 339 Location: Arlington, VA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II, Gaggia... Grinder: Macap M4 Stepless, Faema MPN
Posted Mon Mar 1, 2010, 7:52pm Subject: Re: preground is too fine for my setup :/
Like Jason said, it won't destroy your machine and get a grinder. :-)
"Get a grinder" is really the only right answer. But if you want to see what you can do with the grounds that must surely now be stale... try using less of them in your machine. That should increase the flow rate a bit. I suspect your results will be less interesting than you'd like (because of the stale beans) but not rancid.
Posted Mon Mar 1, 2010, 9:12pm Subject: Re: preground is too fine for my setup :/
If you had done any research or reading on this, or one of the other various coffee forums, you would have known that the espresso machine is subservient to the grinder. It is a challenge to get good espresso on a regular basis even with decent equipment. Without a grinder it is virtually impossible. YOU NEED A GRINDER!
Now, I am curious, how did you order the coffee from Intelligentsia? I would hope that if you had talked to someone they would have questioned why you wanted two pounds ground for espresso. If nothing else, it was a salesperson's opportunity to sell you a grinder. Two pounds of coffee, ground for espresso, is a freakin' lot of coffee and should have raised an eyebrow if not some questions.
geoffbeier Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 339 Location: Arlington, VA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II, Gaggia... Grinder: Macap M4 Stepless, Faema MPN
Posted Mon Mar 1, 2010, 9:32pm Subject: Re: preground is too fine for my setup :/
frcn Said:
Now, I am curious, how did you order the coffee from Intelligentsia? I would hope that if you had talked to someone they would have questioned why you wanted two pounds ground for espresso. If nothing else, it was a salesperson's opportunity to sell you a grinder. Two pounds of coffee, ground for espresso, is a freakin' lot of coffee and should have raised an eyebrow if not some questions.
Sigh. They even offer it on the web site. I used to have a scroll wheel that would go haywire and cause those menus to change every once in a while. I would hope if they ever saw this order coming from me, they'd call to make sure that's really what I want :-(
Posted Mon Mar 1, 2010, 11:39pm Subject: Re: preground is too fine for my setup :/
geoffbeier Said:
Sigh. They even offer it on the web site. I used to have a scroll wheel that would go haywire and cause those menus to change every once in a while. I would hope if they ever saw this order coming from me, they'd call to make sure that's really what I want :-(
Being an ex-teacher, and having spent some times in retail sales in the past as well, I always sold by educating my customers. I questioned their needs and experience and then recommended something and showed them why it met their needs. When my wife would drop by the shop and talk to my manager (e were very friendly), he would laugh and say to her, "Look! He's teaching again!" I suppose it is my background that caused some disappointment when I head that they were selling pre-gound coffee for espresso, and in such alrge quantities. In this economy, many sellers will lean more towards the attitude that, "when a customer says, 'I want this,' your only question is, 'what color do you want, and when do you want it delivered'."
I feel it is a missed opportunity for a company with the reputation that intelligentsia would work towards educating their customers, using that opportunity to sell a grinder (in this case), and thus create a possible long(er)-term relationship with their customer base. it worked really well for me when I was selling. I had customers come back and ask for me by name. Since it takes about three times more money and effort to make a new customer than to keep an old one, it is a financially sound attitude.
Of course, the example at the other end of the spectrum to prove the above model wrong is Starbucks. What started out as a decent brand (many, many years ago) has gotten huge by de-educating their customer base with low-quality drinks, poorly made, and tacking on their own nomenclature to the beverages to make their clientele feel special.
oh, well... Let's all just keep fighting the good fight and winning over as many as possible.
TXBDan Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2010 Posts: 6 Location: Boston Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Mar 2, 2010, 5:42am Subject: Re: preground is too fine for my setup :/
Thanks for your help/advise. I'm fully aware i need a grinder, but i don't want to budget $200+ for coffee right now. I was hoping this preground stuff would hold me over a bit. Turns out i can barely use it so my first plan of action was to A) make sure it won't hurt my lowly machine and B) see if there is a way i can make it work.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,100 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Tue Mar 2, 2010, 8:19am Subject: Re: preground is too fine for my setup :/
Dan, not to be repetitive, but to be repetitive: a) it won't; b) there isn't.
You have a great source for coffee, but it's ground too finely for your machine. Sadly, there is no way to change that. (You cannot, for example, get some coffee that is ground too coarsely for your machine, blend the two together, and have it work properly.)
Since you do not want to buy a grinder at the moment -- but remember: it is essential if you want to, ultimately, make good coffee -- your next best solution would be, for the moment, go to Peet's (for example) and buy no more than a half-pound of coffee at a time and ask them to grind it for your machine.
It still may be to fine. It may be too coarse. The problem is that YOU are not the one trying to dial in the grind for your machine. THEY are. Make note of the number of the grind (e.g.: "5"). If it's too fine/too coarse, ask them to adjust the next half-pound up or down, as needed. And so on and so on and so on . . . .
The coffee will still go stale, but at least it's only 8 ounces at a time instead of 32. (75% less stale?)
Johnlovescoffee Senior Member Joined: 1 Mar 2010 Posts: 7 Location: NY Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Mar 5, 2010, 7:59pm Subject: Re: preground is too fine for my setup :/
I would have thought that you could add some coarse grounds to help, in fact I've done that myself. I guess the fine coffee gets washed through the course and then clogs up the filter anyway.
boyscout Senior Member Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 404 Location: Toronto Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Sat Mar 6, 2010, 11:35am Subject: Re: preground is too fine for my setup :/
Johnlovescoffee Said:
I would have thought that you could add some coarse grounds to help, in fact I've done that myself. I guess the fine coffee gets washed through the course and then clogs up the filter anyway.
Hard to make it taste good if you try this, John. The reason is that the finer-ground coffee gets over-extracted (bitter taste) while you're still trying to get flavour out of the coarser-ground coffee.
That's why in this thread, this forum, this web site, and OTHER web sites for coffee devotees, you keep hearing, "grinder, grinder, grinder." A high-quality grinder that produces a grind even-enough and fine-enough for optimum extraction of flavours and oils, without extracting bad stuff, is pretty much essential to good drinks.
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