Joel_B Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,733 Location: Pacific NW Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Mega II Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: nope, french press Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Sat Jan 17, 2009, 9:39am Subject: Re: Well guys...I finally got a REAL machine and Grinder.
month old is pretty old. May not be the only problem though. Water shouldn't be the cause. Grinder is suspect. out of curiosity, have you tried a finer grind? Try a finer grind for longer extractions wich will also increase the mass of grinds in the basket assuming you fill the basket.
How do you know you're at 203F brewing temp? to learn about managing the HX temp, read the link I gave you. In short, you do a cooling flush and HX rebound. Run water through the group until the water stops flash boiling of the screen; this is visible and audible. After the water stops flash boiling, run the pump another 5sec or so. Every machine's a little different, but I get roughly 5oz during the cooling flush. After you stop the flush, you need to let the water temp in the HX "rebound" so wait another 20-30sec then lock in the PF and pull the shot.
gime2much Senior Member Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,965 Location: Sunny S Fl Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2... Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn... Drip: Bunn comm Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Sat Jan 17, 2009, 9:40am Subject: Re: Help!!! No Crema with my Astra Gourment
abrewedawakening Said:
But there is more to it, because the shot time is only 15 seconds, which may also be the problem... I'm thinking I need a finer grind and/or more grams (don't have a scale).
Stale beans is your primary enemy and until they are replaced you are peeing into the wind. Eliminate that first then start working on any remaining problems...IF you still have any.
By the way fresh beans mean roasted LESS than 2 weeks ago...hopefully within 3-4 days.
abrewedawakening Senior Member Joined: 2 Jan 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Houston Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Sat Jan 17, 2009, 9:44am Subject: Re: Well guys...I finally got a REAL machine and Grinder.
I did read the site about the cooling flush. Thanks for the info. Another question... If I make espressos one right after the other, will I need to do a cooling flush in between each one or only when the machine has set for a while? Thanks.
abrewedawakening Senior Member Joined: 2 Jan 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Houston Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Sat Jan 17, 2009, 9:49am Subject: Re: Help!!! No Crema with my Astra Gourment
Thanks. I did find a local roaster that I will use. I have some beans that I bought from a roaster on Wednesday. I'm going to try those. I was trying to save them for tomorrow, but I may need to use them.
Joel_B Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,733 Location: Pacific NW Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Mega II Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: nope, french press Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Sat Jan 17, 2009, 9:49am Subject: Re: Well guys...I finally got a REAL machine and Grinder.
Back to back shots is under relative time frame, but depending on how fast you prep your next basket, you'll need no flush or a much shorter one. you'll need to determine that yourself.
Joel_B Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,733 Location: Pacific NW Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Mega II Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: nope, french press Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Sat Jan 17, 2009, 9:51am Subject: Re: Help!!! No Crema with my Astra Gourment
abrewedawakening Said:
Thanks. I did find a local roaster that I will use. I have some beans that I bought from a roaster on Wednesday. I'm going to try those. I was trying to save them for tomorrow, but I may need to use them.
Posted Sun Jan 18, 2009, 12:05am Subject: Re: Help!!! No Crema with my Astra Gourmet
abrewedawakening Said:
I'm using a Titan burr grinder, which is obviously not the best, but my friend has one and an Astra and she can get pretty good crema. The grinder does have a very good range of grind from very fine to very course. My beans are 33 days old. I know I need to get fresher beans. I think my water may be a little hot, around 203degrees, but this is a used machine and I don't know how to change temp. I used bottled water.
You have just paired a $3000 espresso machine with a $100 grinder. The Saeco Titan may be marginally capable of an espresso grind, but it's not an espresso grinder. You are also using stale beans, another no-no. So it's really quite simple: stale beans + inadequate grinder = no crema.
Re brew temperature management: Read the HX article on Home-Barista, then read it again (and again) until you understand how heat exchangers work. In short: the boiler is kept at steam temperature (great for frothing milk, but too hot for brewing). Cold fresh water passes through a heat exchanger inside the boiler, and is flash-heated to brew temperature for making espresso. You can change the boiler temperature by adjusting the pressurestat (which usually requires opening up the box), but your primary means of managing brew temperature is by flushing. Flushing more and waiting less before pulling the shot = lower brew temperatures. Flushing less and waiting longer before pulling the shot = higher brew temperatures. A good general guideline for starting out is to flush a couple of seconds past the end of the water dance (when the sputtering subsides), lock in your portafilter, and pull the shot. Then adjust your flush and wait times according to taste (bitter = too hot, sour = too cool).
You've got a great machine. Pair it with a good grinder, and your pours will be almost 100% crema.
Dizzydog Senior Member Joined: 11 Jan 2009 Posts: 27 Location: Arizona Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Jan 18, 2009, 12:20am Subject: Re: Help!!! No Crema with my Astra Gourmet
Hey guys....update to the original post again.
I now get such a good shot out of this machine its about 50% Creama. I almost think the creama is unreal when I see it coming out. AMAZING.
I have to say, this is an amazing machine this Rancilio S24. HOWEVER, my wife hates the space it has eaten up in our kitchen. It is a pretty big bastard.
So im going to need to get rid of it. I think I will miss the fact there is literally zero waiting time for anything on this machine. I can steam and go right into a shot and then right into another shot and then steam again, with zero waiting. The machine is a beast.
Will do a video shortly. I need to find some good shot glasses to show off this qaulity im getting now that ive switched to fresh bean from a local roaster PASSPORT COFFEE. Awesomeness.
merkel Senior Member Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 19 Location: Bonn Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Jan 19, 2009, 6:19am Subject: Re: Help!!! No Crema with my Astra Gourment
33 days is not too bad... As your problem looks really dramatic (no crema at all) I would blame the grinder. Having ground too coarse and tamping very hard you may get 15 s time (which is far from optimum, but enough to get SOME crema) and poor coffee. If you set the grinder to the finest level, it may mean the burrs are blunt.
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