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Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
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mypinktoes
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Seattle-ish
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Sylvia
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Roaster: Caffe Vita
Posted Sat Aug 11, 2007, 11:10am
Subject: Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
 

I've been lurking here for a couple years and finally just saved enough to purchase Silvia and Rocky in July.  (Such a sweet, sweet obsession).

Last night I cleaned Miss Silvia with CleanCaf.  I don't have a backflush PF and the manual says not to backflush her.

The problem is, the new Silvia has TWO tubes into the water intake reservoir.  The second tube does not appear on the diagram in the owner's manual and I can not find info about it online.  I'm assuming the second tube is the one that backflushes into the reservoir.  

So, my problem is that the machine is sparkling clean and the one tube is clean, but the other (backflush?) tube still has the blue CleanCaf in it.  

Help - how do I clean it?  do I keep the other tube out of the equation next time I clean?
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mypinktoes
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Seattle-ish
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Sylvia
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Roaster: Caffe Vita
Posted Sat Aug 11, 2007, 11:13am
Subject: Re: Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
 

My temporary work-around was to pull the backflow tube out to drain over the machine onto a towel and pull a couple of shots.  It worked, but I'm wondering what to do next time.

Does anybody backflush their Silvia?  How often?
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1stline
Senior Member
1stline
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 483
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Undisclosed
Grinder: Indisclosed
Vac Pot: Bodum Electric
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Sat Aug 11, 2007, 2:13pm
Subject: Re: Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
 

mypinktoes Said:

I've been lurking here for a couple years and finally just saved enough to purchase Silvia and Rocky in July.  (Such a sweet, sweet obsession).

Last night I cleaned Miss Silvia with CleanCaf.  I don't have a backflush PF and the manual says not to backflush her.

The problem is, the new Silvia has TWO tubes into the water intake reservoir.  The second tube does not appear on the diagram in the owner's manual and I can not find info about it online.  I'm assuming the second tube is the one that backflushes into the reservoir.  

So, my problem is that the machine is sparkling clean and the one tube is clean, but the other (backflush?) tube still has the blue CleanCaf in it.  

Help - how do I clean it?  do I keep the other tube out of the equation next time I clean?

Posted August 11, 2007 link

Leah,

The second tube is the return from the OPV (a.k.a. overpressure valve). First, please rinse your water reservoir and place in the longer hose only. Next, please remove the secondary shorter hose and place into a cup outside the machine (you may have to hold the cup), and then depress the hot water switch  (do not open steam knob) until the blue CleanCaf is flushed out. Do not run the hot water switch for more than 30 seconds.

 
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Psyd
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Psyd
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,468
Location: MON AZ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Astoria Argenta SAE II,...
Grinder: Rio and Astoria (Mazzer)...
Posted Sat Aug 11, 2007, 8:14pm
Subject: Re: Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
 

mypinktoes Said:

My temporary work-around was to pull the backflow tube out to drain over the machine onto a towel and pull a couple of shots.  It worked, but I'm wondering what to do next time.

Does anybody backflush their Silvia?  How often?

Posted August 11, 2007 link

If I'm thinking what I think Jim is thinking, you have put detergent in your res?  No, bad barista, go clean untiull the coffee is good. Jim may be onto something, but I'd think about going a tad overboard in cleaning the detergent out of the machine.  First, unplug her and take the res out and rinse it good. Rinse off both tubes really well, too.  The long one picks up water, and sends it to the boiler to be used to make coffee.  Since water can't be compressed, and the pump works at a constant rate, your machine would explode if there wasn't a way to deal with water that wasn't going through the puck.  The Over Pressure Valve (OPV) is in line between the pump and the boiler, and it allows water that is, let's call it 'extra' to return to the reservoir, until it is needed again.  IF (and that's a big if) you put detergent in your res, you've probably got it all through the system, so Jim is saying that you need to send clean water up the long tube to flush it, and then make sure that the other tube doesn't send it back to the res.
Since there is some controversy about whether the Sylvia is capable of being backflushed or not, I'm guessing that since Jim sells these, he has a responsibility keep from making any suggestions that the manufacturer wouldn't back up.  I don't know if its right or wrong, I just know that I backflush my Sylvia every six or eight shots, and flush and PF wiggle after every shot.  I backflush with detergent every coupla months, and that figures out to be about every thirty or forty shots.  Sylvia is my backup machine, so she doesn't get that much usage.
T'were me, I'd fill the res and guide the exhaust hose from the OPV to the sink. Plug Miss Sylvia in, and fill a quart measuring cup at least once through the group head.  I wouldn't give her any warm up time before doing this, just flush the water through to clean out the detergent.  Once I'd done that and was pretty sure that the boiler was well rinsed, I'd turn on the hot water switch, and run enough water through that.  After all that was done, I'd put the blind filter basket in, and run the espresso switch till the hose from the OPV got a good rinse, too.
This is what I would do, based on my interpretation of what I understood your issue was.  This is taking a coupla intuitive leaps for me, and inferring things about your situation, about the Sylvia, and about Jim Puccinich, any of which that may not be true.
Enter at your own risk, not meant for indoor or outdoor use, contents under pressure, packaging is measured by weight, not volume, and any other caveats that you think are appropriate.  
Either of those folk that I made assumptions aboput are welcome to correct me at any time, these are only my opinions.

 
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kh99
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Maine
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Rocky
Roaster: iRoast 2
Posted Sun Aug 12, 2007, 5:44am
Subject: Re: Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
 

Psyd Said:

If I'm thinking what I think Jim is thinking, you have put detergent in your res?  No, bad barista, go clean untiull the coffee is good. ...

Posted August 11, 2007 link

CleanCaf goes in the reservoir, I guess it's different than the detergent normally used to backflush.  The CleanCaf instructions are at http://www.urnex.com/cleancafinstructions.htm (Unless your point was that it shouldn't be done in spite of the instructions? But the boiler has to get descaled somehow, doesn't it?)

In any case, I think mypinktoes asked an excellent question because the non-machine-specific instructions don't account for the fact that the Silvia second hose gets cleaner in it but doesn't get flushed.  (A while back someone was complaining about a chemical smell in their reservoir and I suggested this as the cause, but was told by someone else that only clean water comes out of that hose.)
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Psyd
Senior Member
Psyd
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,468
Location: MON AZ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Astoria Argenta SAE II,...
Grinder: Rio and Astoria (Mazzer)...
Posted Sun Aug 12, 2007, 1:47pm
Subject: Re: Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
 

kh99 Said:

CleanCaf goes in the reservoir, I guess it's different than the detergent normally used to backflush.  

Posted August 12, 2007 link

Well, put my hair up in plaits and call me Sally!  No, really, braid my hair.
Mea Culpa, I hadn't known about this.  All of the other instructions I'd stand by, ans a way to rinse the cleaner out of Miss Sylvia, but I'd only make that one exception for the CleanCaf.  I'm pretty sure that JoeGlo and Cafiza should not be run through the group via the reservoir.  Please, though,  just as kh99 did, if I've gotten this wrong, step up and say something.

 
http://members.cox.net/gearsale/Astoria
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mypinktoes
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Seattle-ish
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Sylvia
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Roaster: Caffe Vita
Posted Mon Aug 13, 2007, 7:56pm
Subject: Re: Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
 

Wow  - thanks for all the info.  Yes, I was confused there for a minute - I don't know how to use CleanCaf any way except for in the reservoir.  But thanks for tip - i forgot what an enemy detergent is to taste - i hadn't thought about the oils in the coffee+detergent residue equation.

The bleeding hot water didn't clear the tube for me, but making a shot and dumping it did.

I'll take the overpressure valve out of the res next time I clean.  I think I'll stick with the CleanCaf for now - I spent enough on Silvia, I can't afford to have non-warrantied work done at this point.

Last question: is detergent back-flushing different than CleanCaf?  Is one a cleaner and one a descaler?  Are they both descalers?  

Thank again for all the help.  I really appreciate it.
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takeshi
Senior Member
takeshi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 935
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto 3.0
Grinder: Super Jolly
Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Tue Aug 14, 2007, 8:50am
Subject: Re: Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
 

Yup -- there's definitely a difference.  The detergent goes in your portafilter with a blind insert to clean the accumulated oils off the grouphead, showerscreen, and 3-way valve.  It does not go in your reservoir.

For descaling I just use citric acid.  If there's any residual amount left in the return tube from the overpressure valve I can't tell by the time I've run enough fresh water through Silvia and aside from any flavor altering properties it's totally harmless.

Cleancaf sounds a bit more like a pain to use since it's a detergent and descaler (?) as you really have to ensure that it's fully rinsed out.  I don't see the point in running a detergent through the boiler when you only need a descaler but I guess YMMV...
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CraigA
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CraigA
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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2007, 9:11am
Subject: Re: Cleaning Miss Silvia - what to do with the second tube?
 

takeshi Said:

I don't see the point in running a detergent through the boiler when you only need a descaler but I guess YMMV...

Posted August 14, 2007 link

Well people have sucked milk back up their steaming wands & gotten the milk into the boiler. That's the only time I'd do a detergent flush, but I don't recommend it & have never had to., or done it..

 
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