Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Help Finding Astoria CKXE Specifications & Manual
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Help Finding...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages
Hot_Shots
Senior Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Nov 22, 2004, 10:32pm
Subject: Help Finding Astoria CKXE Specifications & Manual
 

Hello - I'm new to coffeegeek. I've been doing LOTS of reading online and I discover features I like about each new machine I find. I'd like a machine with an E-61 brew group and a thermal siphon system. What is your opinion about the Astoria CKXE? I'm looking at one on eBay and I've been trying to find out more about it. I can't find a website with its detailed specifications - specifically, does it have the E-61 brew group? Do you know where I can download the owner's manual for it as the seller on eBay does not have it. Any other advice about this, or similar, machines? Thanks.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Tomcat
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Frankfurt/Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Eliane, Bezzera B2000
Grinder: Mazzer Mini, Mazzer Kony
Posted Tue Nov 23, 2004, 5:19am
Subject: Re: Help Finding Astoria CKXE Specifications & Manual
 

Hot_Shots,

I have never seen the machine but I have been interested in it as well. As far as I know, the Astoria CKXE's interior is identical to the San Marco CKXE and the Wega Lyra. All of them are made by the Italian espresso machine manufacturer CMA. There is a vibe pump version and a more expensive one with a professional rotary pump. And there is a version with manual dosing (CKX) and another with automatic dosing (CKXE). Here are some specs: http://www.espressoparts.com/static/astoria/compactckxe.htm

The group is not an E61 nor an E61 clone. However, it is debatable whether any E61 clone with a solenoid valve instead of a manual lever and mechanical preinfusion piston can be called an E61 clone. The head has a thermosyphon loop, though, just as any E61 has - or about any other commercial brew head.

The boiler is made from stainless steel, and the boiler has two heat exchangers, one for espresso extraction, one for hot water. Opinions at the German kaffee-netz.de are mixed whether the hot water heat exchanger is large enough to provide sufficient amounts of hot water. Other than that, every owner seems to very pleased with the machine. As a CMA machine, it has truly commercial parts in it, unlike some other semi-commercial machines. CMA is the world's largest espresso machine manufacturer and has a stellar reputation.

Here are some Wega Lyra reviews:

"Wega Lyra - All"

One word of advice: the 230V vibe pump CMA machine without automatic dosing, i.e. the CKX, is available in Germany for less than 1,000 Euros (1,300 US-Dollars). US prices seem somewhat inflated.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Hot_Shots
Senior Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Nov 23, 2004, 3:47pm
Subject: Re: Help Finding Astoria CKXE Specifications & Manual
 

Thank you Tomcat - your response was very helpful.  Since I've read so much praise for the E61 group, should I stay away from this machine?  If I decide to get it, do you know how I could get an owner's manual - is it downloadable somewhere?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
ericbass
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 1
Location: seattle
Expertise: Professional

Posted Tue Nov 23, 2004, 5:27pm
Subject: Re: Help Finding Astoria CKXE Specifications & Manual
 

The Astoria CKX/CKXE or "compact" is a great little machine for the money. You can get the manual by calling Astoria @ 336-393-0224....ask for Gary or Umberto. They will send you one....for free. The CKX (Semi-Auto) is the best deal. You should get it for less than 1,500.00USD if you shop around. That's new by the way.

good hunting

eric
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Tomcat
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Frankfurt/Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Eliane, Bezzera B2000
Grinder: Mazzer Mini, Mazzer Kony
Posted Wed Nov 24, 2004, 4:26am
Subject: Re: Help Finding Astoria CKXE Specifications & Manual
 

Hot_Shots Said:

Since I've read so much praise for the E61 group, should I stay away from this machine?

Posted November 23, 2004 link

Hot_Shots,

This thread has a discussion comparing the CKX to ECM Giotto E61 machines and to a Cimbali Junior: "Buying an HX Machine in Australia: CKX/Wega Lyra, Giotto or Cimbali Junior"

The Cimbali Junior has no E61 group, not even a thermosyphon group, yet it's generally considered to be the best machine of all semi-commercial machines discussed there. There's more to temperature stability and shot performance than a heavy E61 group, it seems.

A factor that tends to be overlooked in HX machines with a thermosyphon loop is that the performance of the loop is not only dependent on the group and its mass but on the design of the entire system. I believe there has to be a dynamic balance between the mass of the group, the size and mass of the boiler, the size and mass of the heat exchanger, and the size and diameter of the thermosyphon pipes. The thermal behaviour of my machine (5l boiler, 350ml HX, Rossi thermosyphon group) changes noticebaly at different boiler fill levels (it has a manual boiler fill switch). And the original Faema E61 machine had something like a 10 or 11 l boiler for its two E61 lever groups. Even the one-group Faema E61 had a large boiler of 5l or more. Hence my suspicion: the thermosyphon action of a traditional 4kg E61 lever group works best with a really large boiler behind it.

The size and weight is one frequently cited advantage of the traditional E61 lever group, mechanical preinfusion is another. While preinfusion is said to generally improve extraction, it is also said to bring out more sour flavours. Depending on the coffee one uses, increased sourness isn't necessarily desirable. And a point Coffegeek moderator Dan Kehn has made: how modern solenoid valve E61s without the piston chamber (he calls them E60.5s) are supposed to achieve mechanical pre-infusion at all is very much unclear. And no machine with automatic dosing can have a traditional E61 lever group.

I believe the E61 isn't necessarily the holy grail, especially for semi-commercial machines. The package has to be right and all factors have to be considered. In the end, we don't want great specs, we want a great espresso.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Hot_Shots
Senior Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Nov 24, 2004, 12:10pm
Subject: Re: Help Finding Astoria CKXE Specifications & Manual
 

Thank you again Tomcat.  Since my last post I found 2 VERY helpful articles that explained exactly what your last post is saying.  In fact, the "101" article has made me reexamine the machine I want and has steered me toward the  Isomac Amica.  I am REALLY enjoying the forums here.  Thank you again :-)


Click Here (home.earthlink.net) (buyers guide)

Click Here (home.earthlink.net) (E61 buyers guide)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Help Finding...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Cafe Solutions
Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.38423705101)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+