Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
Find the Right Machine...
Package deals on the best machines from Izzo, Quick Mill, Rocket, La Marzocco & more.
www.clivecoffee.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Need some help....  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages
37train5k
Senior Member


Joined: 9 May 2014
Posts: 4
Location: TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto
Grinder: Mazzer Robur E
Roaster: Slightly Modded Poppery
Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 7:04pm
Subject: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

I have an Izzo Alex Duetto.  I am attempting to replace the mechanical relay with an SSR.  I contacted Chris Coffee and they sent me a wiring diagram which is attached.  I have wired it exactly the way the diagram shows to wire it, however I am blowing a breaker even with the machine switched off.  I have searched other forums and I see I may have to jump some wires, but I am not having luck deciphering what goes where through those threads.  I have a friend who told me to post on here asking for DavecUK- (I looked up your profile, but couldnt send a private message).  In the second post, I have attached a second picture showing exactly how the existing mechanical relay is wired.  Is anyone knowledgeable enough to be able to help me out and draw on the second picture where each wire goes on the SSR? Any help here is much appreciated.

If I fried the relay, I luckily had the forethought to order 2 just in case, so I have another one waiting to go.

37train5k: CC Izzo Wire diagram.JPG
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
37train5k
Senior Member


Joined: 9 May 2014
Posts: 4
Location: TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto
Grinder: Mazzer Robur E
Roaster: Slightly Modded Poppery
Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

Here is the second picture.  Again-- TIA for the help if anyone can provide it.  Im getting nervous about tomorrow morning's coffee....

37train5k: actual wiring (Small).JPG
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat May 10, 2014, 8:37am
Subject: Re: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

I'm super nervous about advising you. your blowing a breaker because your probably shorting the whole circuit out instead of switching through the heater. you don't even say which relay you got.

Let's hope you got a panel mount AC switched AC  SSR of good quality (e.g. Crydom), probably at least 40A and you heat sink the thing.

Watch this video and understand exactly how and why the relay is working, especially pay attention in the test to how the load (bulb) is wired up!!! It's a DC switched relay, but the AC switched type you have will work in exactly the same way. If you have a 0-32V DC switched relay...stop now and get the right relay, for the control voltages you will be using.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzrsE4tTJP8

I have attached part of the Duetto wiring Diagram for your machine. The arrow points to the relay and you can clearly see the dual pole switching for the load R2. The 2 wires entering the relay on the left are the incoming Live and Neutral wires.

The other 2 wires above the dual pole switch are from the pressurestat and would form the switching signal for the SSR

The information I have just given you, plus the youtube video are enough for a competent person to wire up the machine.....if you can't do it from this, then I am not willing to assist you any further as I would not consider you competent to carry out this modification safely.

In fact I was reticent to post even this, so please be careful, ensure the machines earth is working and there is continuity between case and earth and the machine is protected by an RCD/GFI

DavecUK: relay.JPG
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
37train5k
Senior Member


Joined: 9 May 2014
Posts: 4
Location: TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto
Grinder: Mazzer Robur E
Roaster: Slightly Modded Poppery
Posted Sat May 10, 2014, 9:55am
Subject: Re: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

Thanks for the reply. The relay is Crydom, ac in / ac out. It is panel mount. I have a heat sink.  The machine is on a gfci. .  Thanks for the video. The relay works.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
kize
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Northwest
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat May 10, 2014, 10:07am
Subject: Re: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

you can find another thread about it here.
click here
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
37train5k
Senior Member


Joined: 9 May 2014
Posts: 4
Location: TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto
Grinder: Mazzer Robur E
Roaster: Slightly Modded Poppery
Posted Sat May 10, 2014, 2:42pm
Subject: Re: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

Got it.  Thanks. Machine & SSR are wired up / working perfectly now. Thanks.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
jjsaustin
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Dec 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Austin

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Wed May 14, 2014, 2:34pm
Subject: Re: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

I just did this mod myself last night The relay was acting up, so I cleaned the contacts and got it working again. These mechanical relays just don't last.

Does anyone know why they did not use a SSR in the first place?  They have two other SSRs in there and they went to a SSR for the Duetto 3.

Where did you mount your SSR?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed May 14, 2014, 6:12pm
Subject: Re: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

jjsaustin Said:

I just did this mod myself last night The relay was acting up, so I cleaned the contacts and got it working again. These mechanical relays just don't last.

Does anyone know why they did not use a SSR in the first place?  

Posted May 14, 2014 link

Yes, it was hard enough to convince them to use a PID and not set the temperature control at 93C. After that was another battle to convince them to put a switch so the steam boiler could be switched off! A PID they put on the brew boiler because they had to...they didn't want to, they realised the switching noise would drive people mad and the switching rate would be very high under PID control. The steam boiler had a pressurestat, they never even used to use a relay with those switching all the current through an XP110 on their HX machines!. The relay for them was old and comfortable technology the SSR was not. As they figured a pressurestat wasn't going to switch so often, they fitted a relay, even though an SSR would have been better. In fairness a relay is fine at 240V and none of the relays at 240V have ever failed yet, but at 110V, the current switched is far higher. It was very hard to get them to listen, even though they asked for my help, a case of not invented here.

Another good question is why does any company fit a PID with a shared PID algorithm to control the steam and brew boiler. The requirements of which are mutually exclusive....the current Duetto looses about 20-25% of it's steam boiler element power because it tries to progressively trim power when it gets within about 6C of the setpoint. I insisted on a Dual loop PID with different Algorithms on the Verona (Vetrano 2B) so steaming would be good. Quick Mill are pretty good now, but it's taken me quite a few years.

It's why I am now working with the designer of the Vesuvius, a much easier task and they listen (and do), it's quite rewarding and good fun, when working with such an advanced machine.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
jjsaustin
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Dec 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Austin

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Thu May 15, 2014, 6:02am
Subject: Re: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

Thanks for the info. Do you know where they mounted the SSR on the newer Duetto's?

I ended up mounting mine on the bottom plate next to the other SSR.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu May 15, 2014, 6:06am
Subject: Re: Need some help. Izzo Alex Duetto Relay Replacement. DavecUK around?
 

jjsaustin Said:

Thanks for the info. Do you know where they mounted the SSR on the newer Duetto's?

I ended up mounting mine on the bottom plate next to the other SSR.

Posted May 15, 2014 link

Click Here (www.bellabarista.co.uk)

See page 6 of my review
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Need some help....  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Commercial Equipment
Nuova Simonelli, La Marzocco, Rancilio. Nationwide installation. Instant financing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.364317893982)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+