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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Aurelia dosing...  
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marosmith
Senior Member
marosmith
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Lafayette, Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia V2
Grinder: NS MCF, Baratza Encore
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 6:21pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

CoffeeRon Said:

Did you try this Nuova Simonelli dealer

http://espressomachineexperts.com/

or this one

http://www.amiciservice.com/

and by the way, it's not about being "stupid". I'm a man of above average intelligence, been at this for 5 years, make and roast some dang good coffee (based on what the people who hound me for cappuccinos say whenever they're over!), and I'm still learning little things that help me out all the time. The day you think you know everything is the day you stop learning.

Posted March 27, 2014 link

Yep, tried the first one and they had no idea about the keyboard. We had a guy come set the machine up (espressoMe) but the folks who were there when he was setting up didn't have him setup the volumetric dosing and he also had no clue about the keyboard.
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marosmith
Senior Member
marosmith
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Lafayette, Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia V2
Grinder: NS MCF, Baratza Encore
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 6:23pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

BTW, I also went to Clive coffee and discussed switching to double baskets such as VST. They recommended strongly against that.
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victoriacoffees
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victoriacoffees
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 46
Location: Victoria
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Izzo Pompei
Grinder: Compak K8 Fresh; Mythos...
Roaster: Ambex 15K; Hottop
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 4:39am
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

Were you able to program your doses?

Could you provide the manufacture date (if it is not stamped on the front panel sticker, it will be stamped on a plate next to the heating element). Remove the thumb screws atop right of heating tray and lift off the side panel. This info is helpful in determining the exact model. One last thing, can you post a pic of the front panel.

You may be able to program doses simply by holding the "continuous pour" button. With a loaded portafilter, hold this button down for 5 seconds, all buttons for that group will begin flashing. Now you can begin programming desired doses for each delivery button. Process is the same as you go along.

First button, push it to begin shot. One you have the desired amount, push the continuous pour button to stop. It should now be set and no longer blinking. Move on to the next button and repeat with fresh loaded basket.

Hope this helps.

 
-John
www.victoriacoffees.com
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,257
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 8:03am
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

Here's a link to the NS page which will take you to the Aurelia and Aurelia II pdf manuals.  Victoria Coffee's method works on many machines (including my La Cimbali), but Aurelias are a little different.  The dose programming instructions in the Aurelia II manual, begins on p. 60.  I hope they help.

If the instructions don't apply, or if you find them too confusing, since you haven't found an Aurelia owner or tech here, you're going to have to call an actual tech or manufacturer support and ask them.

However...

Rotary pump, volumetric espresso regulate volume into the pf independent of load.  You don't need to load the basket to get an accurate measure of how the machine is currently programmed.  Just put a measuring cup under the group head, and press the double button.  That should be step 1.

If you're already getting 60ml into the group head, your gauge shows ~9bar, and you're not getting a double's worth of espresso out (I can't emphasize this too strongly), the problem isn't the machine.
 

With 18g of properly distributed grinds, if the machine is delivering 60ml, you should be able to get ~35g of "normale" espresso, filling a 2oz cup, in no more than 30sec following pre-infusion; and -- more often than not the operator should be required to cut the shut manually in order to keep it from over-extracting.  In other words, 60cc water at 9bar is more than sufficient to brew a double's worth of espresso in the standard time frame.  

Trust me on this, I'm not trying to mess with you... Commercial, voumetric, pre-infused rotaries are very different from your Silvia.  Many of the lessons and workaround which you learned using it won't apply.  

You cannot make a good double with 75cc of water at 9bar and a super-long extraction time.  If all you get is a double's amount out with a huge amount of water in more than 40sec, there's something seriously wrong with the puck. That's not an insult or an accusation; it's a "just is."

Similarly, if it takes you longer than 40sec (not counting pre-infusion) to pull a double, and the pump is functioning properly, there's something seriously wrong with the puck.  That's not opinion, a matter of style, or a way of trying to make you feel bad, it's another "just is."

If you need a coarser grind and lower dose to get an appropriate flow rate at 9bar, you have to adjust grind and dose.  If adjusting grind and dose makes for channeling, than you have to deal with channeling with puck-building techniques; that is, in some other way than a finer grind and larger dose.  

Unless the machine as it's set up now isn't delivering the amount of water it's programmed to deliver at 9bar, based on what you've described, and despite some of the other things you've said, the problem is on the user end of the pf handle.  

I really hope you get this worked out.

Rich
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marosmith
Senior Member
marosmith
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Lafayette, Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia V2
Grinder: NS MCF, Baratza Encore
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 9:34am
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

victoriacoffees Said:

Were you able to program your doses?

Could you provide the manufacture date (if it is not stamped on the front panel sticker, it will be stamped on a plate next to the heating element). Remove the thumb screws atop right of heating tray and lift off the side panel. This info is helpful in determining the exact model. One last thing, can you post a pic of the front panel.

You may be able to program doses simply by holding the "continuous pour" button. With a loaded portafilter, hold this button down for 5 seconds, all buttons for that group will begin flashing. Now you can begin programming desired doses for each delivery button. Process is the same as you go along.

First button, push it to begin shot. One you have the desired amount, push the continuous pour button to stop. It should now be set and no longer blinking. Move on to the next button and repeat with fresh loaded basket.

Hope this helps.

Posted March 28, 2014 link

I did try this manual method but holding the continuous button never resulted in the lights blinking.

I'm not near the machine, it is an Aurelia version 1 VIP plus model with the digital reader screen across the front. It does not have pid control.

I'm pretty sure that it has to be programmed digitally. There is also a grind setting, but the manual doesn't make sense to me.
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,257
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:05am
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

Since you're not responding to my other questions:
  1. Is it fair to infer the machine is already delivering 60cc of water at 9bar?  And,
  2. May I further infer you're determined to try and fix your low output problem by increasing the amount of water into the pf, rather than by starting with grind, and/or dose, and/or puck building technique?  

With the Aurelia type and generation at least partially identified:
Most of Aurelia VIP models require a waiter/technician programming key to enter the programming menu.
  1. Do you have the programming key?
  2. With an empty basket in the pf, how much water does the machine currently deliver?
  3. Does the machine currently display an amount?  (If I understood your first post correctly, it's set at 60cc).  
  4. Assuming you have the key, and can get to a PROGRAM DOSES SELECT display (by pressing the "down" arrow), where does your understanding of the manual break down?

Rich
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marosmith
Senior Member
marosmith
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Lafayette, Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia V2
Grinder: NS MCF, Baratza Encore
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 3:22pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

So a quick update. I guess the guy who set up the machine did not replace the gaskets, like I had been told.

I replaced them today, they were so bad they needed to be chiseled out. That's why I was getting such a mess during every shot even when I was pulling a 30 second 2 oz shot.

I again tried to do a manual dosing by holding down the continuous button, it does not work.

The digital dosing at 60cc will pull about 12 seconds and shut off. So that doesn't work either.
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,257
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 5:38pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

...
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skydragondave
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 167
Location: Ontario, Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Commercial Only
Grinder: Commercial Only
Roaster: Has Garanti HG5
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 7:31pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

marosmith Said:

So a quick update. I guess the guy who set up the machine did not replace the gaskets, like I had been told.

I replaced them today, they were so bad they needed to be chiseled out. That's why I was getting such a mess during every shot even when I was pulling a 30 second 2 oz shot.

I again tried to do a manual dosing by holding down the continuous button, it does not work.

The digital dosing at 60cc will pull about 12 seconds and shut off. So that doesn't work either.

Posted March 28, 2014 link

"Nuova Simonelli Aurelia restoration (PIC HEAVY)"

Send me an email if you want some help.
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marosmith
Senior Member
marosmith
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Lafayette, Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia V2
Grinder: NS MCF, Baratza Encore
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 8:51pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

skydragondave Said:

"Nuova Simonelli Aurelia restoration (PIC HEAVY)"

Send me an email if you want some help.

Posted March 28, 2014 link

Very interesting thank you.

I also wanted to mention I was able to get the screen turned off, but if anyone has experience with getting an infrared keyboard (other than the one that came with it) to work let me know.
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