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Aurelia dosing and programming questions
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Aurelia dosing...  
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marosmith
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marosmith
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 85
Location: Lafayette, Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia V2
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Posted Wed Mar 26, 2014, 5:42pm
Subject: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

We purchased a used Aurelia 2 group VIP model with the full digital display.

I am in charge of setting it up for our chuch coffee shop m

It is paired with a la pavoni zip grinder. We are using bottomless portafilters with tripple baskets.

I finally got the grind dialed in and noticed it needs to be very fine and the shot must be slow in order to avoid channeling / squirting.

I thought I had set the dosing by programming it in the menu for 2 oz pulls, which in the menu represented 60cc.

Unfortunately when I pull a shot it stops after a few seconds just short of an ounce.

When digitally setting the dosing I did not run a shot with coffee loaded. The manual honestly makes no sense to me.

Also- this is the unit with the readout menu. We bought it used and I was informed that in order to edit the menu that the prior owner had set, I would need to purchase an infrared keyboard from Nuova for $600. Now, clearly that's an insane price for a keyboard. Does anyone know if a generic infrared keyboard can work on this machine, or any other way to revise the menu readout? If we can't we will eventually have to cover up the screen which would be a shame.

Thanks for your help.
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,077
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
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Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Wed Mar 26, 2014, 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

Keyboard -- don't know.  Borrow an IR board or find a cheap one and give it a shot.  What do you have to lose?  

I gather you don't know very much about the espresso making process yet, and can only tell you that dialing in a new (to you) machine and grinder will be a real adventure.  

Strongly consider hiring a tech to help you set up the machine.  Strongly consider taking barista lessons, as well.  You may get lucky and find someone who can help you with both the machine and training.  At least look.

Water in to the basket, measured by weight or volume does not equal the amount of espresso out.  

A lot of the water you're pumping into the puck, stays there instead of coming out into the drink.  The bigger the basket, the larger the amount of coffee, the more head space, the finer the grind, the more water will stay there.  

Triple baskets are extremely difficult if you don't know what you're doing.  Use smaller, "double" baskets, a lighter dose (which will mean a finer grind), to get a more reasonable output.  Smaller baskets and lighter doses make it easier to build a good puck, too.

Start with a basket which will take a 16 - 18g dose.  VST/Strada/La Marzocco "Special" baskets are very expensive, but very consistent.  

Measure your output by weight instead of volume.  Volume varies with density, which is largely a function of the amount crema.  Consequently, output volume supplies far less useful information in comparison to weight.

Flow rate is extremely important.  You need to learn to identify the blond point, to adjust grind so you can pull a shot which is twice the weight of the dose in 25sec, plus or minus 4sec.  

If you bought the grinder used, the odds are very high that it needs new burrs.

Good luck,
Rich
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CoffeeRon
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CoffeeRon
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Tacoma Wa.
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
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Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:49am
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

It all sounded like sound advice based on the information you gave. You're close enough to Portland there should be a tech around with the keyboard you need so you wouldn't need to buy one. Maybe as it's for a church you might even get lucky and find one to volunteer their services. If you re-read Rich's post with a bit of Christian humbleness/humility you may find some very helpful information there.
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
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Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 6:38am
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

Can you post the exact model# your dealing with?  In order to properly program a dose you will need coffee in the portafilter.  No hands on with this particular machine but I bet there's a way to program regular stuff like dosing with just the machine itself.  Something like holding in a button for a few seconds to put the machine into programming mode. The Infrared keyboard sounds like something you would need to actually mess with the text on the screen like changing "short shot"  to "single" or something as a readout.

Check out this PDF on page 50. Looks like page 51, bottom right explains how to set the dose. (Without a keyboard)

Hope this helps.
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
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Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
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Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 6:47am
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

Sorry, not at all to defend Rich, who can stand up for himself, but your initial post really sounds like your skills and knowledge base are not quite up to the task.  I think he was just trying to be helpful (as am I with this post).  Here's why...

marosmith Said:

It is paired with a la pavoni zip grinder. We are using bottomless portafilters with tripple baskets.

Posted March 26, 2014 link

Basket size is determined by desired dose, which should be based on the beans you are using and the flavor profile you desire from them - after a rather lengthy experimental process of dialing it in. I suggest reading the Espresso 101 post by Jim Schulman on home-barista.com as it delineates how to adjust a grinder and then how to adjust a shot based on taste, using both dose and grind modifications.

marosmith Said:

I finally got the grind dialed in and noticed it needs to be very fine and the shot must be slow in order to avoid channeling / squirting.

Posted March 26, 2014 link

Channeling is a distribution problem, unless you're way off on dose or grind...like trying to put 14g in a 20g basket or using a french press coarse grind in an espresso basket.  so if you're in range on dose and grind for the basket, then flow rate and shot timing have nothing to do with channeling.

marosmith Said:

Unfortunately when I pull a shot it stops after a few seconds just short of an ounce.

Posted March 26, 2014 link

...and how long does that take? Either you're not extracting long enough or your grind is too fine. Possibly you've also even overdosed the basket.

I'm sorry I can't help you with the programming. I have no experience with your machine, or any other volumetric for that matter. However, as I've tried to illustrate above (and as Rich tried to tell you), your problems are more than just setting the machine up to run properly.  

Regarding your first reply to Rich, if you don't remove it, you're going to get a strike from the mods. This board has pretty strict rules against personal attacks.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,077
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 8:53am
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

Matt,

Reprogramming the machine to dose something other than 60ml and/or to allow a longer clock for the dose (yes it has an automatic-shutoff timer) is almost certainly unnecessary, and nothing more than wheel spinning.

If the machine pumps at 9bar, and delivers 60ml of brew water through an empty pf; and you can't pull a 35g shot of about 2oz volume, from an 18g dose, in 20 - 27 seconds following the pre-infusion period, your problem quite probably lies in the arenas of grind, dose and puck building.    

Your threshold problem isn't a slow flow-rate.  Rather, it's the channeling which caused you to overdose, and grind too fine in an attempt to fix it.  To put it bluntly, things were bad and you made them worse.  But, to be charitable (and honest as well) that's something WE ALL do.
________________________________
So now what?
If the Aurelia's "soft" pre-infusion system is operating properly, and your grinder is appropriately dialed in and otherwise functioning properly, the machine can deliver a fairly good looking shot with nothing more than a finger wipe to level the grounds -- not even tamping.  In fact, that's been a part of Nuova Simonelli's demo of SIS ("soft infusion system) in trade shows for years.  

Assuming pre-infusion is working, that leaves the grinder and puck building skills.  If the burrs are old and have some bad spots, or are out of alignment the grinder could be delivering widely uneven particle sizes.  The easiest fix is to drop in, new, replacement burrs and recalibrate the grinder.  New burrs are inexpensive and easy to replace; and used, flat burr grinders almost always need them.  If there are mechanical alignment problems (for instance something's bent) you'll almost always spot them during the replacement and calibration process.  

If pre-infusion and the grinder are both good, that leaves puck building skills.  Triple baskets are very difficult for even skilled baristas.  If you're planning on other congregants handling barista duties, do them the favor of making it as easy as possible on them by dumping the triples and replacing them with 18g LM "Special" (aka Strada) or VST (ridged) baskets.  

Once you've checked to make sure that all the machinery is functioning properly, have swapped the triple baskets for doubles, and are dosing an appropriate weight for the the basket, if you're still having problems with channeling and/or flow rate, it comes down to bad puck building skills.  

Rich
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marosmith
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marosmith
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 85
Location: Lafayette, Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia V2
Grinder: NS MCF, Baratza Encore
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:09pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

LOL. I know you guys will attack this advice- but if you took a step back and read what you wrote from the standpoint of an observer, you may be a little shocked at your tone.

I realize by discussing the process of getting a grind and machine set up I confused you. I know what a good shot is and how to pull it.

You guys really need to try (I know it's hard for you) to answe the question that's being asked instead of ranting about how stupid the poster is.

I asked about the keyboard, you guys don't know. I asked two local servicers, they don't either. So in other words you guys don't have the answer. Thanks ?

Then I asked about how to program the dosing because the manual doesn't make sense. I am pulling good shots manually, but the other folks running the machine simply won't be able to manually stop the shot, so I have to figure out the menus.

If any of you want to answer one of those questions, that would be awesome!! I'm guessing you won't, and continue with the self-indulgent responses about what an idiot I am.
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,954
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 12:38pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

Whatever, Dude.  You clearly asked some things that made people wonder if you know how to prepare a basket or not and in fact, even made comments leading us to believe you didn't.  If you do, great.  As I said, I only was trying to help you.  If you take that as me thinking you're an idiot, well...not much I can do about that.  I mean, really?  I even tried to say that wasn't what I was doing...but take it how you will.  I'm sure if we were in person, you'ld appreciate the friendliness of my tone.  Sadly, facial expressions and vocal tone, as wel as body posture don't carry through on forum posts. Enjoy your gear, and good luck with it!

If I really thought you were an idiot and didn't want to help you, I wouldn't have suggested you remove your personal attack you made in your second post.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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CoffeeRon
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CoffeeRon
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Tacoma Wa.
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
Grinder: Macap M7D, Pharos, Vario W,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam CoffeeMaster
Drip: Melita BCM-4
Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 1:41pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

Did you try this Nuova Simonelli dealer

http://espressomachineexperts.com/

or this one

http://www.amiciservice.com/

and by the way, it's not about being "stupid". I'm a man of above average intelligence, been at this for 5 years, make and roast some dang good coffee (based on what the people who hound me for cappuccinos say whenever they're over!), and I'm still learning little things that help me out all the time. The day you think you know everything is the day you stop learning.
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marosmith
Senior Member
marosmith
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 85
Location: Lafayette, Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia V2
Grinder: NS MCF, Baratza Encore
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 4:26pm
Subject: Re: Aurelia dosing and programming questions
 

I'm not an expert but I know how to pull shots. Clearly giving you guys any extra information (my bad) about the process of dialing the grinder in was a mistake and got you guys excited (which for you guys that means critical rant).

But I wanted to ask specific questions after doing due dillegence elsewhere to find my information. Hopefully an Aurelia expert will actually try to answer the questions. One can hope, right?
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