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Want to replace my super automatic
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Want to replace...  
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Wiedhas
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 4
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Mar 26, 2014, 11:45am
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

Thanks for the post Rich.  Last question before I purchase: my wife likes the cafe crema that our Jura Ena Micro 9 makes.  If I purchase say a QM Silvano, will I be able to duplicate this drink reasonably well?  I google'd this and I think the closest thing to it in the espresso world is either a "Long Black" or a cafe americano.  Perhaps I could just pull a longer espresso shot for her?  


Nick
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DanoM
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Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 377
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega, '84 La...
Grinder: Compak K10, Kludge grinder,...
Posted Wed Mar 26, 2014, 1:44pm
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

Not sure how Jura defines a caffe crema, but wikipedia has a definition that specifically uses a coarser ground espresso for a 6oz extracted drink.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caff%C3%A8_crema

I've not had one, but I've made them by accident.  Usually they go down the sink, but had one that smelled nice and even tasted okay so I thought about mastering it for the wife.  I assume you could duplicate the true caffe crema with a little study and practice.  The easy way around is an Americano or Long Black that takes a normal espresso with hot water, as you have found.  (Wife later decided that a single good espresso shot in her latte is far better than alot of thin coffee with milk.)
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sherpakid
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Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Quickmill Silvano
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Chemex, Aeropress, Clever...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 2:52pm
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

I have the Silvano/Vario combo and love it. I was initially worried about low steaming power from the thermoblock, but I haven't found it an issue. I don't make a lot of milk heavy drinks though, just cappuccinos for my wife and myself in the morning. I can easily pour latte art from it. I took that over the CC1 because I liked the stainless steel construction.

I will say that my friend, who has been in the coffee industry over 2 decades, was a Q-grader and judges at CoE competitions, came over and played with my setup. He was very impressed with the quality from the Silvano/Vario home setup.

I've never used the CC1, so I can't say, but it does seem like a nice option. I decided to go with the Silvano based off of the reviews and stainless steel construction. It looks great on the counter and makes great espresso. Here is a great review of the Silvano .

 
www.prohibitionspecialtycoffee.com
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lparsons21
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Joined: 8 Jul 2006
Posts: 311
Location: Herrin, IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex
Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Ascaso i2,...
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Behmor,...
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 4:01pm
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

DanoM Said:

Not sure how Jura defines a caffe crema, but wikipedia has a definition that specifically uses a coarser ground espresso for a 6oz extracted drink.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caff%C3%A8_crema

I've not had one, but I've made them by accident.  Usually they go down the sink, but had one that smelled nice and even tasted okay so I thought about mastering it for the wife.  I assume you could duplicate the true caffe crema with a little study and practice.  The easy way around is an Americano or Long Black that takes a normal espresso with hot water, as you have found.  (Wife later decided that a single good espresso shot in her latte is far better than alot of thin coffee with milk.)

Posted March 26, 2014 link

I do caffe cremas all the time, as well as Americanos.  There is a difference in flavor and strength.  Love them both!  The key is getting that 6oz poured in 25-30 seconds and that sometimes takes quite a bit of fiddling.  Enough so that I have one of the 3 grinders set at some arbitrary number for the caffe cremas only.

 
Lloyd
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,261
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 7:16pm
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

I've never made cafe crema, and would trust Lloyd on it.  My wife used to be big into Americanos with cream and sweetener, and lattes with all sorts of syrups and other chazerei.  But her tastes have evolved to barely sweetened lattes and long blacks with cream and a little sweetener.

We talk about our coffee every morning, and it amazes me how accurately she can taste the nuances through the dairy and Splenda.

I usually take my espresso straight up, but enjoy the variations.  It's easier to get long blacks consistently right than Americanos.  Considering that the only difference is that a long black is espresso on top of hot water, and an Americano is hot water on top of espresso, you wouldn't think there'd be a difference.  But espresso bitters if it hits overheated water (or vice versa), and the long black process is a little easier to control.  

In the end your wife will enjoy whatever you make her if you get the bitters and sours balanced and the strength dialed-in.    

Barista-ship is a craft.  Expect to put in a LOT of practice before getting good.  Fortunately, your wife is patient and good-humored.  Right?

Rich
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lparsons21
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Jul 2006
Posts: 311
Location: Herrin, IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex
Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Ascaso i2,...
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Behmor,...
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

boar_d_laze Said:

my espresso straight up, but enjoy the variations.  It's easier to get long blacks consistently right than Americanos.  Considering that the only difference is that a long black is espresso on top of hot water, and an Americano is hot water on top of espresso, you wouldn't think there'd be a difference.  But espresso bitters if it hits overheated water (or vice versa), and the long black process is a little easier to control.  

Rich

Posted March 27, 2014 link

I didn't know what a long black actually was.  Interesting.  So you get the 2oz of espresso and pour it into 4 oz of hot water?  I'll have to try that.

I don't see why that would be easier to control than an Americano.  I pull a double shot, pour it into my permanent morning cup and fill to pretty much the same level.

 
Lloyd
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Wiedhas
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 4
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

Fortunately for me my wife is patient and and good humored. We need to go and try the long black drink before I ditch the super auto.  Otherwise it will be like that scene in Indiana Jones where he swaps the statue with the bag of sand.  I can't deliver a bag of sand!

We have an intelligentsia near us so we could try one there.
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CMIN
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Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,377
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 6:12am
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

So awhile back when I was hearing of Cafe Crema, I tried it at home. I thought it was awful lol, went through pounds dialing in and never liked it nor wife. Then we were overseas where it's more popular, tried it a few times and still didn't like it. An Americano was so much better. A real Cafe Crema is as describe above by lparsons, pulling a "shot" that's ground coarser for 5-6oz and extracted in the same time as a normal espresso shot. I got the time and amount perfect, but even with different beans and blends, thought it was blahhh.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 6:28am
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

Just be aware if you are considering it, the BDB is a consumer appliance grade machine not  a prosumer grade machine, if you are OK with that, go right ahead, this is just a heads up for full disclosure.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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lparsons21
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Jul 2006
Posts: 311
Location: Herrin, IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex
Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Ascaso i2,...
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Behmor,...
Posted Fri Mar 28, 2014, 8:15am
Subject: Re: Want to replace my super automatic
 

CMIN Said:

So awhile back when I was hearing of Cafe Crema, I tried it at home. I thought it was awful lol, went through pounds dialing in and never liked it nor wife. Then we were overseas where it's more popular, tried it a few times and still didn't like it. An Americano was so much better. A real Cafe Crema is as describe above by lparsons, pulling a "shot" that's ground coarser for 5-6oz and extracted in the same time as a normal espresso shot. I got the time and amount perfect, but even with different beans and blends, thought it was blahhh.

Posted March 28, 2014 link

I can understand that opinion.  I started doing them when I had a Sylvia since making Americanos was a bit of a PITA with that machine since it had no hot water outlet on it.  They are strong and really need a very freshly roasted coffee imo.  I also tended to lighter roasts for Caffe Cremas too.

These days I tend to do mostly Americanos because my Alex has the hot water tap very handy!  :)

 
Lloyd
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