Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New Breville...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 4 of 14 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
dagoat
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 320
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Mon Mar 3, 2014, 10:54pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

jbkalla Said:

I just got the BES920XL (in red!).  The bottomless portafilter for the BES900XL does not work with the new machine.  Does anyone know where I can get one for the 920?

On the handle, right next the the filter housing, the new one has a cutout to allow the filter to go up into the machine just a bit.  It could probably be ground down in the old portafilter, but I don't have a grinder.

Posted February 28, 2014 link

This is the same problem with the /B version of the 900xl.  A minute and a half with the grinder and I'm back in business.  Mine won't win any concours d'elegance shows but if it's important to you, yours could be made to look almost identical to stock if you spent more time on the finish work.

-Peter
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
cgjamj
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Virginia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler 920
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster
Posted Sun Mar 9, 2014, 6:35am
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

SpaceTime Said:

Congrats on the 920!  I personally would love to hear your thoughts, especially from one that owns the 900 also!  (I am assuming since you have a bottomless for the 900 you own that machine to - but you did not say to verify that - do you own the 900?).

I have one eye on the 920, I never got the 900 for various reasons, and wondering how owners of both stack them up.

Posted February 28, 2014 link

I had the 900 and just got the 920 a few weeks ago. I actually had it to sent to me from Breville as a replacement to my 900 which was out of warranty but suddenly developed an issue where the pressure gauge started bouncing during extraction. I'm also in the same boat of my naked porta filter not working on the 920. The Breville rep I talked to did say they'll be available soon on their website.

As far as the comparison between the two, the obvious difference is the ability to descale yourself. But I have noticed several other software improvements, which the rep mentioned to me, but I haven't played with them too much. A big one is the ability to adjust steam temp.

One negative thing I did notice is that I initially had a lot of frustration on the 900 where the first shot was terrible, i.e. low pressure and extraction was too quick. This was frustrating because it wasted time to do a shot to throw away and of course, it wasted coffee. The coffee is a little too expensive to waste, so I bought grocery store beans for the throw away shot, but that also was a pain. I tried Tonx coffee after using Counter Culture for a while, which I really liked. Tonx is so far my favorite, but one additional benefit is their beans made an acceptable first shot, which was a HUGE benefit to me. This doesn't seem to be the case with the 920, but I think it could just be the batch of coffee. I'm still on my first batch of coffee I'm using for the 920. And I did up the grind (finer) the other day and it improved the first shot quality - higher pressure and hit the 2 oz mark right around 30 secs.

Is that pretty typical for people to throw away the first shot of the day due to bad quality?

Thanks.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Sun Mar 9, 2014, 7:19am
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

cgjamj Said:

Is that pretty typical for people to throw away the first shot of the day due to bad quality?

Thanks.

Posted March 9, 2014 link

There is a myth propagated on LEVER machines that "the first shot is throw away" - and I think this exists because some folks are not preheating their group / portafilter sufficiently to get temperature stability and the shot suffers due to under-extraction due to the low temps in the critical areas.  But as a lever owner, I say "hogwash" my first shot is always of high quality because I assure the correct temperatures across the board - and not just in the boiler - before pulling the shot.  Among other factors of course....

My point? Just because you have a semi-auto does not mean you shouldn't pay attention to group / portafilter temps before pulling the shot also.  But you may be having other issues.  But my short answer is - NO - if all variables are lined up, you have the correct extraction pressure in the boiler (BAR), things are preheated sufficiently, you are pre-infusing, the water is the right temp, etc - then you SHOULD NOT be tossing your first shot - ESPECIALLY on a semi-auto.

If you were to ask other 900 / 920 owners out there, I bet the ones who have mastered it (and even those that are getting closer) are not tossing their first shot.  But they would have to know more about your technique and machine readings before they could offer any assistance.  I say something in your technique, machine preparation needs tweaking - the first shot should be as good as the second IMHO.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,201
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Sun Mar 9, 2014, 9:24am
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

One negative thing I did notice is that I initially had a lot of frustration on the 900 where the first shot was terrible, i.e. low pressure and extraction was too quick. This was frustrating because it wasted time to do a shot to throw away and of course, it wasted...  Is that pretty typical for people to throw away the first shot of the day due to bad quality?

As you've already determined, the problem lies with grinding.  The combination of low pressure (with a vibe pump machine), fast flow rate, with a grind setting that was good yesterday usually means a high proportion of so-called "retained," stale grinds.  

If the coffee, pressure and flow rate get better on the next pull at the same grind setting strengthens the hypothesis.  If you have to go to a finer grind every day and keep it there for every shot, then you're dealing with ordinary staling exacerbated by a not very good grinder.  

You either have to blow the stale grinds out of the grinder's grind path by grinding a shot's worth of beans -- in which case you might as well pull the "sink shot," to get everything to equilibrium  -- change your grinder technique (single dose, e.g.); and/or get a different grinder.  

If you're using your Kitchen Aid Pro Line, per your bio, I'd suggest upping the grinder as soon as you reasonably can.  Whatever mods you've made and whatever other KA users are telling you, it's still not a good grinder.  The BDB can do justice to something much better.

FWIW, I use an extremely expensive, high-end grinder, and blow 14g through it every morning to flush retained grinds; and then pull a shot with it -- because... why not?  Do I drink it?  That's not the point.

The point being,
Whatever works, brother.  

Rich
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
voodoo11
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
Posts: 28
Location: NJ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES920XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso, Hario...
Drip: V60
Posted Sun Mar 9, 2014, 1:21pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

cgjamj Said:

I had the 900 and just got the 920 a few weeks ago. I actually had it to sent to me from Breville as a replacement to my 900 which was out of warranty but suddenly developed an issue where the pressure gauge started bouncing during extraction. I'm also in the same boat of my naked porta filter not working on the 920. The Breville rep I talked to did say they'll be available soon on their website.

Posted March 9, 2014 link

Interesting. I just bought a 900 naked PF from Clive and it fits my 920 fine (although it now goes about 30 deg past the "locked" guide). I'm using a 18g vst. It was tight but now sits ok rather nicely. Where are you finding fit problems?  I want to look out for it on my PF.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
cgjamj
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Virginia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler 920
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster
Posted Mon Mar 10, 2014, 6:54am
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

SpaceTime Said:

There is a myth propagated on LEVER machines that "the first shot is throw away" - and I think this exists because some folks are not preheating their group / portafilter sufficiently to get temperature stability and the shot suffers due to under-extraction due to the low temps in the critical areas.  But as a lever owner, I say "hogwash" my first shot is always of high quality because I assure the correct temperatures across the board - and not just in the boiler - before pulling the shot.  Among other factors of course....

My point? Just because you have a semi-auto does not mean you shouldn't pay attention to group / portafilter temps before pulling the shot also.  But you may be having other issues.  But my short answer is - NO - if all variables are lined up, you have the correct extraction pressure in the boiler (BAR), things are preheated sufficiently, you are pre-infusing, the water is the right temp, etc - then you SHOULD NOT be tossing your first shot - ESPECIALLY on a semi-auto.

If you were to ask other 900 / 920 owners out there, I bet the ones who have mastered it (and even those that are getting closer) are not tossing their first shot.  But they would have to know more about your technique and machine readings before they could offer any assistance.  I say something in your technique, machine preparation needs tweaking - the first shot should be as good as the second IMHO.

Posted March 9, 2014 link

I'm not totally sure I know what you mean by group head temp, but I do flush it for a few seconds before doing the shot and prior to that, I insert the portafilter in the group head to warm that up as well. I don't keep the portafilter inserted while not in use as I'm afraid it will wear down the seal, so I insert it as I start preparing everything. As far as the group head, assuming flushing it prior to the shot is what you're referring to, then I'm good with that. I am preinfusing as well.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
cgjamj
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Virginia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler 920
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster
Posted Mon Mar 10, 2014, 6:56am
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

boar_d_laze Said:

As you've already determined, the problem lies with grinding.  The combination of low pressure (with a vibe pump machine), fast flow rate, with a grind setting that was good yesterday usually means a high proportion of so-called "retained," stale grinds.  

If the coffee, pressure and flow rate get better on the next pull at the same grind setting strengthens the hypothesis.  If you have to go to a finer grind every day and keep it there for every shot, then you're dealing with ordinary staling exacerbated by a not very good grinder.  

You either have to blow the stale grinds out of the grinder's grind path by grinding a shot's worth of beans -- in which case you might as well pull the "sink shot," to get everything to equilibrium  -- change your grinder technique (single dose, e.g.); and/or get a different grinder.  

If you're using your Kitchen Aid Pro Line, per your bio, I'd suggest upping the grinder as soon as you reasonably can.  Whatever mods you've made and whatever other KA users are telling you, it's still not a good grinder.  The BDB can do justice to something much better.

FWIW, I use an extremely expensive, high-end grinder, and blow 14g through it every morning to flush retained grinds; and then pull a shot with it -- because... why not?  Do I drink it?  That's not the point.

The point being,
Whatever works, brother.  

Rich

Posted March 9, 2014 link

Thanks for pointing that out. I haven't been using the Kitchen Aid grinder in over a year. I got the Vario. I need to update my profile. And I do make sure there are no retained grounds in there each time.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
cgjamj
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Virginia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler 920
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster
Posted Tue Mar 25, 2014, 6:48am
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

After more than a month with the 920, I'm noticing a very frustrating issue...whatever the extraction pressure is, it does not maintain it. It stays there for a few seconds, then drops a few bars. Does anyone else here with the 920 have the same issue? I will probably call Breville again if not.

Thanks.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Metatron
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Nov 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Calgary, Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: BDB900
Grinder: Vario
Posted Tue Mar 25, 2014, 6:59am
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

cgjamj Said:

After more than a month with the 920, I'm noticing a very frustrating issue...whatever the extraction pressure is, it does not maintain it. It stays there for a few seconds, then drops a few bars. Does anyone else here with the 920 have the same issue? I will probably call Breville again if not.

Thanks.

Posted March 25, 2014 link

It sounds like you have channeling in your puck. Essentially, the water opens a crack in the puck which allows very high/quick flow hence the pressure drop.

If you want to make sure it is not the machine, pull a blank shot using the 1 cup pressurized filter. The pressure should stay steady at 7 bar or so. If it does, it is not the machine but your grind, distribution or tamp.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
cgjamj
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Virginia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler 920
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster
Posted Tue Mar 25, 2014, 8:31am
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

Great idea....I will try that and let you know! Thanks!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 4 of 14 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New Breville...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
Rocket Espresso R58 Double Boiler -  Everything you need for the perfect shot!
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.467591047287)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+