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New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New Breville...  
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 762
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014, 6:11pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

calblacksmith Said:

There are a couple HX machines in the $1200 range...

Posted January 26, 2014 link

Bezerra BZ02; Bezerra BZ07; Expobar Office Lever; and NS Oscar.  Offhand, nothing else is ringing a bell.

All very bottom of the line.  All with lots of ergonomic compromises.  The BZ02 and Oscar are very "low feature," while the BZ07 and Office are not atypical of most prosumer, E61 HXs -- which neither have nor need much in the way of features -- but they're very cramped inside and out.  

Whether 900 or 920, the Breville BDB is an entirely different beast.  All the features, very friendly, etc., etc.  

That said, the Brevilles are mass produced, consumer appliances built in Asia on plastic frames.  The others are more hand built in Europe on metal frames.  Breville uses some proprietary parts for the BDBs, but the things which have a tendency to fail -- like valves and pump -- are the same ones the European makers use.  

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a BDB for someone who wanted to take the easiest road to good espresso (not that there isn't plenty to learn).  And -- in the full knowledge and understanding that BDBs are NOT built for the ages -- would probably buy one for myself if buying a new machine in the under $2K price range.

Wayne (Calblacksmith) and I agree to disagree about the BDBs.  He's sure they'll fall apart at any second, while I think the BDB is the most bang for the buck between the CC1 and Bezerra Strega.    

BDL
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mariog7
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Mar 2011
Posts: 204
Location: NJ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quickmill Vetrano
Grinder: Vario
Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014, 6:43pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

BDL, please don't start with Wayne. He's very closed minded and spreads negativity when people are trying to learn about BDB.
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 762
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014, 7:10pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

mariog7 Said:

BDL, please don't start with Wayne. He's very closed minded and spreads negativity when people are trying to learn about BDB.

Posted February 1, 2014 link

It's way too late for us to start anything with one another.  We're well into the middle by now.  Even though he and I don't agree about the BDB we agree about a great many things, and enjoy the heck the out of our disagreements.  

Hopefully the back and forth will give prospective purchasers some insight into choosing their own best path.  

BDL
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014, 7:29pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

boar_d_laze Said:

It's way too late for us to start anything with one another.  We're well into the middle by now.  Even though he and I don't agree about the BDB we agree about a great many things, and enjoy the heck the out of our disagreements.  

Hopefully the back and forth will give prospective purchasers some insight into choosing their own best path.  

BDL

Posted February 1, 2014 link

It is always good for prospective buyers to hear both sides of the story... I like that about CG.
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014, 7:33pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

mariog7 Said:

BDL, please don't start with Wayne. He's very closed minded and spreads negativity when people are trying to learn about BDB.

Posted February 1, 2014 link

So does the fact he does not agree with your opinion have anything to do with your assessment of being "closed minded"?

If he agreed with your assessment of the BDB, would he no longer be "closed minded then?

I think it is called an "opinion" and everyone is entitled to one.  Let's face it, Wayne is hardly alone with his opinion of the BDB... it is definitely a platform which still yields a hot or cold response from many experienced coffee geeks.

And let's be frank, Breville worked hard to get the bad rap with some of their past releases - the BDB may be doing a little to fix that past rap - and yes, that is my opinion.  (mixed with what some would consider fact).
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dagoat
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 318
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Sun Feb 2, 2014, 8:20pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

calblacksmith Said:

There are a couple HX machines in the $1200 range,  much better value with them, I also agree, don't buy a used B machine, and personally, don't buy any B machine new or used they are consumer built, not heavier like other choices. YMMV.

Posted January 26, 2014 link

My mileage varies from this statement.  By a lot.   It shows a profound ignorance of why any of us (who aren't ignorant dupes, anyway), would get a 900/920XL.  It has nothing to do with robust construction:  I cede that to you, prima faciae.  It has everything do with performance.  Basically, the 900 (and I suppose the 920 as well), has the coveted temperature performance of the $6500-up saturated brew group machines... As verified by Mark Prince's Scace testing comparing it to the $6500 GS/3.

Nobody is arguing that these Breville machines will have anywhere near the lifetime maintainability of a steel, chrome, and brass Italian machine.  What we who knew what we were doing when we bought them were thinking was, "who cares about a lifetime of mediocre espresso caused by wild temperature variance, or else having to jump through hoops to work around the temp fluctuations?"  Been there, done that, and still doing it, (yes, I have and still use other machines).  We wanted GS/3 temperature stability (better actually, if that matters), flush, load and pull... again, and again, and again, without ever having to worry about brew temperature.

But we are not stupid.  I know full well mine may not last forever.  I don't expect it to.  I haven't even figured out yet how long it must last in order for me to feel like I got my money's worth out of it. The jury is still out on that one, IMHO.  But my goodness what ride it's been.  If mine fails at a point where I feel like I did NOT get my money's worth, I suppose I will pony up for a GS/3, (what I really want is a single group Cyncra).  But one thing is for darned sure... after the performance I've gotten out of my 900xl, I damned sure am NOT going to settle for any of the $1500-$3500 class of machines that don't have saturated brew groups.

For the record, I've had SBDU machines, (still do, in storage), and I have a full manual machine (Pavoni lever) that I love dearly and use often, no, I use it very often, even with all the hoops and histrionics to control it's temperature.  But it adds completion to my espresso experience to have a machine where I do NOT have to do that stuff as well.

And?  YMMV too.

-Peter
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,499
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Feb 3, 2014, 2:41pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

Peter, no, I really don't care what you buy, as long as you know what you are getting, that is all I ever said.

Rich, no I do not feel EVERY BDB will fall into pieces any second, (LOL) rather they have had huge issues on roll out. Yes they are going the extra mile CS wise, they have to, they have a big investment in the line and they need to salvage what they can of a reputation on that machine.

We do agree on a lot, I feel we are much more alike than different and that what drives us is to help people. I have NO problem with your recent description of the BDB in another thread when you mentioned it. There was no need to add anything, the information was all there for the consumer to make a decision, there was nothing more for me to say :D

The "closed minded" comment to me sounds like their ox was gored, that they took something as personal that I never said to them, it is water under the bridge for me, lets move on and take care of helping people and sharing good times :D

I simply point out it is ... inexpensively built, to, mostly noobs who think "it is just as good or better than OLD WORLD machines" It is not. It does have a lot of features and if a shopper would rather have features over long life, that is their decision and as long as they know it up front, a rational choice with all the information at hand, then head on buy one and may you live in rapture.

I do not prejudge anyone when offering help with their problems, I work hard to help anyone from a department store Krupps owner to someone with much higher quality gear.  I catch a lot of heat for my lack of support of the BDB, so be it, however I can and do make a distinction between a machine and it's owner. It is the owner I am trying to help, a machine is just that, a machine, it will not feel bad that I do not think highly of it, it does not have feelings.

Sometimes owners become more involved with their choice, they identify with it,  what they feel it says about them (when it does not) and they take it personally when someone feels differently.

So, .... YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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voodoo11
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
Posts: 28
Location: NJ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES920XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso, Hario...
Drip: V60
Posted Mon Feb 3, 2014, 2:42pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

SpaceTime Said:

Bottom line - Breville will be selling the 920 directly to the public starting on 2/1 - but if you want to buy from a US retailer - you can only purchase it directly from Breville starting on that date.....

Posted February 1, 2014 link

So it's not listed on brevilleusa.com (Oracle is listed for sale).  Did they mean 3/1?
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Mon Feb 3, 2014, 4:47pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

voodoo11 Said:

So it's not listed on brevilleusa.com (Oracle is listed for sale).  Did they mean 3/1?

Posted February 3, 2014 link

No I am certain it was 2/1 - well, actually he said "at the start of February", and "in a few days" so that could of meant 2/3 (Monday) also as 2/1 was a Saturday.... but definitely not 3/1.

Now, he did not say whether it was available on the website, plus I did not ask.  In fact, he mentioned if I was interested to call him back to order - so who knows.  But I would think if they are available to purchase, they would be on the website.

Give them a call if interested.  All I got was a verbal commit, plus things change, so who knows... mention you talked to someone that was told the machines would be available for purchase from Breville direct... the guy I talked to was a sup and I am fairly sure was not just making it up! LOL
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Thu Feb 6, 2014, 6:08pm
Subject: Re: New Breville Dual Boiler BES920XL
 

Voodoo - did you buy the 920?
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