Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Buying a machine for the first time (noob alert)
Donate to Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids works with farming communities around the world, improving lives. Donate today.
www.coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Buying a machine...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 5 of 5 first page previous page
Author Messages
dwRK
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 92
Location: Houston
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014, 11:39pm
Subject: Re: Buying a machine for the first time (noob alert)
 

Obsolete information, untrue for a few years. The new Livia has nothing in common with the BZ99

Internal and external pictures, and a few parts i looked at show they are practically identical...differences are only skin deep, so how is the livia 90 nothing in common with BZ99? Even Eric S at H-B says its the same. also take a look at the pasquini g4 vs bezzera bz13...surely one is a rebadge

Can't say for sure, but you're almost certainly wrong.  ECM and Rocket used to be the same company, but went their separate ways.  ECM's offices are in Germany, but it has its own factory in Italy where they do everything (as far as I know) in-house

Yes i know about the ECM Giotto story. See picture...ECM Technica III (left) Bezzera Mitica (right)...not just the layout...but how things are bent/run around...

More the opposite.  They're dragons and the temp shifts from "temped" back to "too hot," very quickly.  You can use their over-responsiveness to effectively "shape the hump."  The E-61 group, with its "thermosyphonic stabilization" is quite a bit more stable.

so what did i say differently? Yes dragons..."This is similar to little Elektra, and presumably all other machines with bolt to the boiler groups (what Dan calls "Dragon" machines). These machines are very easy to get about right, impossible to get exactly right. " was a quote from Jim Schulman at H-B. on the e-61...i was referring to adjusting flush and wait time to shape the brew temp

I've read the whole Bezzera owners thread and didn't get too much info on different machines, just a lot of discussions about BZ02-07-10's and how good they are.

i would put all the new BZs to be the same...minor parts/layout changes only...i like the 10 better. biggest difference for the magica (vibe pump) and mitica (rotary pump)...

dwRK: ecm-mitica 1.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,257
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Wed Feb 5, 2014, 12:38am
Subject: Re: Buying a machine for the first time (noob alert)
 

dwRK Said:

Internal and external pictures, and a few parts i looked at show they are practically identical...differences are only skin deep, so how is the livia 90 nothing in common with BZ99?

Posted February 4, 2014 link

Because the Livia 90 is out of production, is defunct, is extinct, is no more.  

Yes i know about the ECM Giotto story. See picture...ECM Technica III (left) Bezzera Mitica (right)...not just the layout...but how things are bent/run around...

There are only a very limited number of ways things can be routed.  Because one E-61 looks a lot like another, doesn't mean they're made by the same manufacturer.  Doesn't mean they aren't either.  Doesn't really mean much at all.

what did i say differently? Yes dragons...flush, lock and pull, rising temp..."easy to get about right" was a quote i think from Jim Schulman at H-B on boiler heated group on the livia 90...wish I can find his post. on the e-61...i was referring to adjusting flush and wait time to shape the brew temp

Maybe I misunderstood what you and Jim were getting at.  But, after roughly twenty years with a Livia 90 as my daily driver, I've got as good an idea as anyone of how to make them sing; and stand by my description.      

i would put all the new BZs to be the same...minor parts/layout changes only...i like the 10 better.

The BZ-10 gets hot fast, recovers quickly, is well made, is a good steamer, and is not nearly as cranky as the 99 -- which is all very good.  But the design and group are passe.  Whether you and I like them is one thing, market cred is another.

The biggest difference for the magica (vibe pump) and mitica (rotary pump)...

I'm not disagreeing so much as clarifying.  They appeal to different buyers in that the Magica is reservoir only, while the Mitica needs a rotary pump because it's convertible.  With an OPV in line, there isn't much difference in the cup between vibe and  rotary pump machines -- especially with a soft-start, pre-infusion reservoir in the group.    

BDL
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
dwRK
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 92
Location: Houston
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Feb 5, 2014, 11:26am
Subject: Re: Buying a machine for the first time (noob alert)
 

Marbos Said:

Does it make a big difference in which way the boiler is positioned and how about .5 liters?

Posted February 4, 2014 link

it depends...they all have pros and cons. given a same size boiler, vert is better for gas/liq separation...i.e., drier steam, while horiz is better if you need more heater/water contact...there are lots of design considerations and i'm sure the designers have balanced them out as much as they can already like having a bit bigger horiz boiler...so in all honesty i'd say no...

are you referring to unica's .5L boiler? that is a SBDU...
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Marbos
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Feb 2014
Posts: 21
Location: Ottawa
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Feb 5, 2014, 4:52pm
Subject: Re: Buying a machine for the first time (noob alert)
 

I was referring to what was said about the differences between the BZ and named Bezzera's.

What are ppl's takes on the Compak K6 Grinder? I could get one (1 year) used for about $300?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,375
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Feb 5, 2014, 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Buying a machine for the first time (noob alert)
 

Marbos Said:

I was referring to what was said about the differences between the BZ and named Bezzera's.

What are ppl's takes on the Compak K6 Grinder? I could get one (1 year) used for about $300?

Posted February 5, 2014 link

That's cheap for a barely 1 year old K6. K6, Super Jolley, Baratza Vario etc have similar grind quality and taste in cup in that class. Vario is still so easy to use especially with it's low/tiny retention making it awesome for single dosing, but $300 for a K6 is really cheap. I'd snag that and your getting that tank like build quality.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
dwRK
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 92
Location: Houston
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Feb 5, 2014, 7:31pm
Subject: Re: Buying a machine for the first time (noob alert)
 

boar_d_laze Said:

I'm not disagreeing so much as clarifying. BDL

Posted February 5, 2014 link

Whether you and I like them is one thing, market cred is another.

...i thought it was a slightly off-tangent discussion...just clarifying too and let other folks make up their mind...and while i "like" the bz-10...it is not something i want to buy...


back to bezzera...with all these chatter about how obsolete the livia 90 is...i went and bought one today :) ...for tinkering and passing time...

What are ppl's takes on the Compak K6 Grinder? I could get one (1 year) used for about $300?

good price...i would just go get it. (p/s actually i'm looking around a $1k grinder)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
canuckcoffeeguy
Senior Member
canuckcoffeeguy
Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 207
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Magica, Mypressi...
Grinder: K10PB, Vario, Hario Slim
Vac Pot: I have a Dyson vacuum, but,...
Drip: Bialetti Brikka, Bodum...
Posted Mon Feb 17, 2014, 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Buying a machine for the first time (noob alert)
 

Marbos, as the original poster of this thread, I'm curious what you decided? Did you get a Bezzera? Did you get a grinder?
CCG
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Marbos
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Feb 2014
Posts: 21
Location: Ottawa
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Feb 17, 2014, 3:04pm
Subject: Re: Buying a machine for the first time (noob alert)
 

I was about to grab the K6 grinder but realized it was 3 feet tall (sarcastic voice), so I'm gonna wait a bit to save up and grab the Bezzera and a Vario. I have been lurking kijiji between Ontario and Montreal to see if anything similar comes up in the meantime but no luck.

I'll let you guys know as soon as I get my setup!!

Thanks again for everyone's input!!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 5 of 5 first page previous page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Buying a machine...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Commercial Equipment
Nuova Simonelli, La Marzocco, Rancilio. Nationwide installation. Instant financing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.373784065247)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+