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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Will this fit?  
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topull
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Toronto, Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014, 9:43am
Subject: Will this fit?
 

Hi All

I've been lurking here for a bit and have gathered lots of info about the world of coffee...  when the espresso machine uses CG as a reference for info (for I like to find out about things) this is an awesome place to get started...

That said, I read multiple threads about machine comparisons, grinders, technique, etc...  and have a long way to go...

I picked a Quick Mill Silvano up over the holidays and have been playing around.  I have gotten to the point where I can at least drink the coffee I make (lol!) ... and want to continue to improve.  (Also picked up a Compak K3 Touch)

My tamping is horrible and I would like to get a bottomless portafilter for it.  My understanding is that a number of them are interchangeable.  I found some that would fit the Silvano, but found some that cost a fair bit less and was wondering if anyone could confirm that they would work with the QM.

I read here that a Silvia PF would fit but found a Cimbali and La Marzocco for almost half the price ($50)... (http://bulpro.ca/product/cimbali-bottomless-portafilter/)  

Would either of these work?  Other suggestions?  (If I come home with another part for a 'riduculously' priced espresso machine... I should tell my wife that the part was a great price... right?!!  ;)  (j/k my better half has been loving the coffee I have made for her))

Thanks for any help or suggestions!

:)
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,947
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014, 1:08pm
Subject: Re: Will this fit?
 

Hi, short answer' no they won't work.

A little longer one, it depends LOL! For the most part LM is not interchangeable with anything and. Cimbali commercial are a no go though I heard that the home machine PF may.

A bottomless won't do much for tamping and as long as you are consistent with tamping you are pretty much good to go. Tamping is the least important part. A good grinder is first and tied with the grinder is fresh and quality beans.

A bottomless can be fun to watch for sure but it is more of a fad honestly. Attention to what you are doing and doing consistently then making only one change at a time will help more. Honestly, the only reasion I use one on my E61 only because it gives me about an inch more room under the GH. On my M32 I do not have a bottomless that will fit (commercial La Cimbali) and because it has more room, I don't miss the bottomless. PF at all.

That does not mean you don't want one, it is a fun toy but it is not mandatory for improvement in the cup.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,390
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014, 3:02pm
Subject: Re: Will this fit?
 

Call Chris Coffee and ask.

BDL
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topull
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Toronto, Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014, 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Will this fit?
 

Thanks for the clarification... on the 'usefulness'... its money i'd rather not spend atm, though it definitely does look like fun!

I have been experimenting with a number of distribution techniques and tonight finally got the volume to come out of both spouts relatively evenly...  finally!

However, I think I have found a number of other potential 'issues' I need to deal with...  :P

Much appreciated!

:)


topull Said:

Hi All

I've been lurking here for a bit and have gathered lots of info about the world of coffee...  when the espresso machine uses CG as a reference for info (for I like to find out about things) this is an awesome place to get started...

That said, I read multiple threads about machine comparisons, grinders, technique, etc...  and have a long way to go...

I picked a Quick Mill Silvano up over the holidays and have been playing around.  I have gotten to the point where I can at least drink the coffee I make (lol!) ... and want to continue to improve.  (Also picked up a Compak K3 Touch)

My tamping is horrible and I would like to get a bottomless portafilter for it.  My understanding is that a number of them are interchangeable.  I found some that would fit the Silvano, but found some that cost a fair bit less and was wondering if anyone could confirm that they would work with the QM.

I read here that a Silvia PF would fit but found a Cimbali and La Marzocco for almost half the price ($50)... (http://bulpro.ca/product/cimbali-bottomless-portafilter/)  

Would either of these work?  Other suggestions?  (If I come home with another part for a 'riduculously' priced espresso machine... I should tell my wife that the part was a great price... right?!!  ;)  (j/k my better half has been loving the coffee I have made for her))

Thanks for any help or suggestions!

:)

Posted January 10, 2014 link

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topull
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Toronto, Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014, 4:51pm
Subject: Re: Will this fit?
 

Thanks for the suggestion... much appreciated!
:)

boar_d_laze Said:

Call Chris Coffee and ask.

BDL

Posted January 10, 2014 link

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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,390
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014, 5:17pm
Subject: Re: Will this fit?
 

There's a little more to prepping the puck than just getting coffee into the basket and tamping.  You need to make sure there are no clumps before tamping, that the coffee is distributed evenly without voids before tamping, that grind and dose are correct before tamping, and that "head space" (distance from top of the puck to the dispersal screen) and level are correct.    

Many people don't understand the relationship between head space, grind and dose.  But if you want to make consistently good coffee, the relationship is at least as important as the relationship between grind, dose and flow rate.    

Wayne (Calblacksmith) and I differ a little on the utility of a naked (aka bottomless) portafilter.  We agree that it can be a helpful tool for diagnosing beginner's mistakes; that beginner's frequently over-interpret the flaws; and that once distribution is under control, the naked pf is only good for its visual interest.  I think it's a little more worthwhile than he does.  Not much of a difference is it?  

Tamping:
  1. Tamp level;
  2. Train yourself to tamp with consistent pressure.  Anything from 15 - 50lbs is good; and
  3. The outer edge of the puck must be pressed hard enough against the the basket wall to form a seal.

Tamping out of level is probably the most common error.  Failing to form a seal is probably next.  Consistency is important, but using some particular force (e.g., 30#) is hugely overrated.  

(Shortcutting to the next question) Do I need a super duper tamper?
It usually doesn't really matter what kind of tamper you use as long as it's the right size.  Flat, American Curve, C-Flat, C-Curve, smooth, ripple... alla time same same.

VST and Strada baskets are among the few exceptions, where shape does matter.  You'll get a better extraction with a flat of "C-flat" than with any curve.  As with the vast majority of situations, ripples don't make a difference one way or the other; but they look really cool.  

Do you need a quality tamper or can you get away with the piece o'crap which came with your machine?  You need something comfortable, heavy, and of good enough quality that you can tamp level and consistently.  The least expensive "good" tampers are made by Rattleware.

I have no idea how many scores (or even hundreds) of times I've advised people how little the differences between decent tampers signify; but it's a lot.  In a classic case of lawyer don't BS thyself, over the same years I've accumulated a bunch of very cool tampers no better than the Rattleware I also have, but cooler.    

BDL
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fnacer
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 468
Location: Denver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Salvatore E61, Vivaldi Mini...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini, Gaggia MDF,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014, 6:24pm
Subject: Re: Will this fit?
 

calblacksmith Said:

For the most part LM is not interchangeable with anything

Posted January 10, 2014 link

Are you sure? 58mm and 2 tabs at right angle to the handle is about as standard as a portafilter gets.
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topull
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Toronto, Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014, 7:24pm
Subject: Re: Will this fit?
 

Thanks for the additional device... I need to read up more on head space...  I am getting a better understanding of grind and have been experimenting with different beans (mostly because I finished the bag I got with the machine, two more bags I purchased (darker roasts), and everything I had left at home (ick!))...  (from bean to bean from what I can tell so far it seems darker roasts (found a bag of Doi Chaang 'Espress Yo Self' and some decaf for the wife (preggers) at a local roaster) need a finer grind to get proper pressure (~9bar) while the medium roast I had (Daterra Farms Espresso Yellow) used a coarser grind... I tried several searches to see if darker beans required finer grinds in general but didn't find anything conclusive...)

As for a tamper, I failed to mention that I did get a decent (?) tamper with it (haven't used the plastic thing that the QM comes with (some kind of joke I think)).  It is a 58mm Concept Art tamper with a flat bottom (I had a choice between flat and convex but opted for the flat because I wanted to have the opportunity to tamp without 'assistance' and develop 'technique').  To be honest I don't know if the CA tamper is a 'good' one... but it is at least metal and flat (unlike the plastic thing)...

I experimented with dosing between 14-22g measured on a digital scale with the different grinds to see if I could match the volume of the dose to the grind and the extraction time (~25-27 sec).  I am getting in the ballpark, but am learning to dial in the taste as well... I think I need to find a 'staple' bean and buy a bigger bag so I can dial the shot and actually enjoy the coffee before I have to switch the setup ... lol!

As for distribution, I've been experimenting with WDT but don't really 'feel' it.. I have gotten much more even shots with it
but want to learn how to dose directly in the pf and distribute evenly with my fingers... it is pretty cool getting nice even shots though...

Thanks again on the pointers for tamping and forming a seal...

:)



boar_d_laze Said:

There's a little more to prepping the puck than just getting coffee into the basket and tamping.  You need to make sure there are no clumps before tamping, that the coffee is distributed evenly without voids before tamping, that grind and dose are correct before tamping, and that "head space" (distance from top of the puck to the dispersal screen) and level are correct.    

Many people don't understand the relationship between head space, grind and dose.  But if you want to make consistently good coffee, the relationship is at least as important as the relationship between grind, dose and flow rate.    

Wayne (Calblacksmith) and I differ a little on the utility of a naked (aka bottomless) portafilter.  We agree that it can be a helpful tool for diagnosing beginner's mistakes; that beginner's frequently over-interpret the flaws; and that once distribution is under control, the naked pf is only good for its visual interest.  I think it's a little more worthwhile than he does.  Not much of a difference is it?  

Tamping:
Tamp level;
Train yourself to tamp with consistent pressure.  Anything from 15 - 50lbs is good; and
The outer edge of the puck must be pressed hard enough against the the basket wall to form a seal.

Tamping out of level is probably the most common error.  Failing to form a seal is probably next.  Consistency is important, but using some particular force (e.g., 30#) is hugely overrated.  

(Shortcutting to the next question) Do I need a super duper tamper?
It usually doesn't really matter what kind of tamper you use as long as it's the right size.  Flat, American Curve, C-Flat, C-Curve, smooth, ripple... alla time same same.

VST and Strada baskets are among the few exceptions, where shape does matter.  You'll get a better extraction with a flat of "C-flat" than with any curve.  As with the vast majority of situations, ripples don't make a difference one way or the other; but they look really cool.  

Do you need a quality tamper or can you get away with the piece o'crap which came with your machine?  You need something comfortable, heavy, and of good enough quality that you can tamp level and consistently.  The least expensive "good" tampers are made by Rattleware.

I have no idea how many scores (or even hundreds) of times I've advised people how little the differences between decent tampers signify; but it's a lot.  In a classic case of lawyer don't BS thyself, over the same years I've accumulated a bunch of very cool tampers no better than the Rattleware I also have, but cooler.    

BDL

Posted January 10, 2014 link

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topull
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Toronto, Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Jan 10, 2014, 7:28pm
Subject: Re: Will this fit?
 

fnacer Said:

Are you sure? 58mm and 2 tabs at right angle to the handle is about as standard as a portafilter gets.

Posted January 10, 2014 link

I'll call idrinkcoffee.com (where I got the machine) and Chris Coffee as well when I get a chance and post what I find out... Slawik at IDC.com did say that the portafilters were exchangeable we I didn't ask him specifics... IIRC I did see him use a pf from a Bezzera on the QM though...
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