Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
Rancilio Silvia - How to
Step by step guide for easy brewing and steaming with the Rancilio Silvia
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Giotto...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages
wynb
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Victoria (Canada)
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Giotto Rocket
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 6:13pm
Subject: Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
 

Hello Coffee Group,I'm not sure if this is where I should post this,but.I want to replace the relay in my Giotto Rocket Premium  with a solid state relay but I'm not sure which wires have to be attached to the ss relay. Has anyone done this?
Any info will be helpful.
Thanks,
Wynb
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 510
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 8:56pm
Subject: Re: Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
 

The relay is on the powerboard (Inside the box that controls the auto-leveller et al.) so just leave that existing one in place.  What adding a sacrificial relay to Giotto will do is to protect the electrical contacts in your pressostat from burning out so often.

Depending on the age of your Rocket Giotto, it may have a Sirai pressostat. A big, and very resilient pressostat with big electrical contacts that aren't prone to burning out as often as little pressostats do.  Putting these better pressostats into Giottos was one of the first improvements Rocket did when they took on the Giotto model. If this is the case, it could be argued that a SS Relay is an unneccessary improvement, not doing enough good to make it worthwhile.

If your pressostat is the little, round "ma'ter", then the SS Relay will certainly improve the longevity of it's contacts, but won't make it last forever.

If you look at your powerboard, it should have a sticker on the side to point out which wires are which.
Between the brown and blue power supply from the mains is the black wire that runs up through the pressostat, the safety-hi-limit thermostat and then to the heating element.

What you need to do if you're going to run the element off of a relay instead of the P-Stat is to run that first black wire from the powerboard up to the safety-hi-limit on the top of the boiler(The one with the red button to reset it). From the other side of the hi-limit run a wire down to one of the "load" terminals on the relay. We'll say "Load 1".  Now the relay has a live power source to control(So long as the boiler is full etc.).  From that same terminal "Load 1", run another wire (Black to avoid confusion) up to where the previous wire used to go on the "NC" normally Closed terminal of the pressostat.  Now the pressostat has a power supply to trigger the relay with.
Both the Relay and the Pressostat will lose power if the boiler should ever overheat due to a cracked element or something.
Note:  If your pressostat has two skinny wires, black and purple or something, both running back to the powerboard, then it came from the factory wired with a bad idea. This is why the relay on your powerboard is burning relays. The rewiring here will cure this problem. But the next step will not be an accurate description of what you're seeing.
Let me know and I'll write a better description.

Now, the "C" common connection on your p-stat probably runs to one of the connections on your element. Take that wire off of the p-stat's "C" and put it onto the new relay's "Load 2", the other "Load" connection so that the relay can turn power on and off to the element.

Now that "C" on the P-Stat has to be connected to the "Control/Input" of the Relay to tell it when. So connect a wire from P-Stat C to "Input 3", a new terminal on the relay.  And to finish it off, the relay needs a neutral on "Input 4" in order to know when "3" has a signal, so you'll need to make a jumper wire to any of the other neutrals (The blue wires that jumper to all of the components).

Before you start, can you post up a couple pictures of your powerboard showing the sticker/picture, the powerboard showing the wires attached, the relay you're going to use ,  the top of your boiler inclusing hi-level and pressostat?  This would make me a lot more comfortable knowing that we're both talking about the same thing and that I'm not going to burn down your kitchen.  I don't mean to insult you, I just want to know that I'm not leading you into something where you'd make a mistake I'm not thinking to foresee.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Choppa
Junior Member
Choppa
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 6
Location: New Zealand
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket
Grinder: Macap M4
Posted Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:59am
Subject: Re: Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
 

First up, my apologies for posting to an old thread... but it's exactly what I'm after and need a bit more help with.

OK... hi to all Coffee Geeks from New Zealand - I've been a long time browser of Coffee Geek and finally signed up. And yes... with an ulterior motive as stated above! :-)

Steve - you provided such a well detailed answer and I was surprised the thread stopped there; maybe enough detail for the original poster.

My situation is that I have a 2006 Rocket that is now giving the exact symptoms described suggesting the relay in the control box is failing. My machine is as one of the 'baddies' that has the skinny black and grey wires going from the pstat to the power board. I've taken the machine apart to identify all the important components with a view to ordering what I need.

I want to upgrade the wiring and add the new relay as per your instruction but wanted to check and seek clarification from you before proceeding - so for now it is reassembled and I can coax a brew out of it if I flick it on-and-off a few times until the relay fires up the heater element!

I took plenty of photos so that I could provide sufficient information - I have attached the power board image and will include others when I work out how to include them in the text! :-)

I would really appreciate a step-by-step to do the upgrade and guidance as to what relay I should buy - identical to the original or a more robust alternative?

Cheers,  Jeff.

Choppa: Rocket-161445.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Choppa
Junior Member
Choppa
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 6
Location: New Zealand
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket
Grinder: Macap M4
Posted Sat Nov 15, 2014, 3:02pm
Subject: Re: Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
 

Additional photo:

Choppa: Rocket-161845.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Choppa
Junior Member
Choppa
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 6
Location: New Zealand
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket
Grinder: Macap M4
Posted Sat Nov 15, 2014, 3:06pm
Subject: Re: Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
 

Another photo:

Choppa: Rocket-172529.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Choppa
Junior Member
Choppa
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 6
Location: New Zealand
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket
Grinder: Macap M4
Posted Sat Nov 15, 2014, 3:07pm
Subject: Re: Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
 

Additional photo #3

Choppa: Rocket-184859.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,034
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Nov 17, 2014, 6:32am
Subject: Re: Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
 

When you mod the machine, YOU then become the designer and it is on you to spec the parts.
If it were me and I wanted to  install a SSR to take the load for the heater, I would buy a SSR that had the trigger voltage the same as the supply voltage to the heater, I would then cut the wires to the heater and use that circuit to trigger the SSR, I would then run another feed from the main power in to the SSR and to the heater perhaps with a breaker in the circuit to provide over current protection to the heater.

In this way, when the machine calls for heat, it triggers the SSR and IT switches the power to the heater.

YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 510
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Tue Nov 18, 2014, 4:53am
Subject: Re: Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
 

If you are comfortable soldering, you should first replace the bad relay on the powerboard with any similar cheap relay. That way you can use the powerboard's Rezistenza connection for the new SSR&Element circuit. This will ensure the machine can't heat the element when the boiler isn't full.


Basically you'd run the wire from there to "Load 1" of your SSR. Another wire from "Load 1" would go to the "Common" of your pressostat. Now your controls have power.
Another wire would run from your pressostat's "NC" (Normally closed) to the "Input 3" of the SSR. Another wire would go from SSR's "Input 4" to the neutral. (If you look at all of the actuator components they have a common colored wire and a unique colored wire to each, in north america the blues are the common "neutral" to each (I know they're actually phase, that's a mistake they've made at assembly, no need to correct me)) So 4 would be jumpered in with the rest of the blues.
That leaves the SSR's "Load 2". Run a wire from there up to your high-limit thermostat if you have one, then through and to the element.

If you look through Omron's Site you'll see the G3NA220B AC200-240. That's a bit of an overkill in New Zealand where your amperage is half of what we deal with in North America, but it would be my choice out of familiarity.

It's a different machine, using always live power instead of a switched power from the powerboard, but here's another user's write up of an installation. T3chiman's Log
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Choppa
Junior Member
Choppa
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 6
Location: New Zealand
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket
Grinder: Macap M4
Posted Tue Nov 18, 2014, 2:11pm
Subject: Re: Giotto Rocket-Replacing the relay with a solid state relay-
 

Thank you both for taking the time to help out - it's much appreciated.

I'll order the parts and proceed as you have suggested - it may take a little while as some things tend to take longer than expected to get to this neck-of-the-woods. I'll post with my progress/results so that others may benefit.. and if I am stumped by anything I'll seek your guidance once again.

Now where did I put that de-soldering braid...?!

Thanks again - there's always a coffee or three for you if you find yourselves in li'l ol' NZ!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Giotto...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.353444099426)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+