Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
Home Espresso Machines
Watch videos with Gail & Kat, Rocket, Jura Capresso, Saeco, Rancilio, Quick Mill, Nespresso
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > La Spaziale S1...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
Author Messages
christianoleary
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Glendale, AZ
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Mac Digit
Grinder: La San Marco
Drip: Bunn
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 6:53pm
Subject: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

Hello Everyone,

I have a small coffee cart trailer that I run at two commercial office buildings here in Phoenix. I have small rushes of about 5-10 people every half hour or so.  I am currently running a Nuova Simonelli Mac Digit with a La San Marco grinder. My coffee cart was made to run outside because I will be using it for small events in the future also. Because of the way it was built, I am limited to the power that my locations provide which is usually only 1 - 30 amp 110v breaker or my 5000 watt generator. I have been running into pressure issues with the Nuova Simonelli where I can only get out about 5 drinks in a row before my pressure decreases to 0 bars, and then it takes about 15-20 minutes to gain optimal pressure again. It also takes about 1 & 1/2 hours to get to optimal pressure every day when i plug it in. This is a problem for me because I am a mobile cart and I have to unhook the power daily. I know that this machine is older, and I am bound to run in to issues with it sooner or later. I have been talking with an espresso tech who has been extremely helpful in helping me troubleshoot the pressure issues. So far, however, I have not been able to figure out what exactly is causing the pressure malfunction.

I am still going to troubleshoot, and try to get the machine back up and operational, but I am also looking into buying a newer model machine that may end up being a little more reliable. I am currently looking at the Rancilio Epoca S1/ST1 and the La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi II/Mini Vivaldi II due to their price and 110v power capabilities. Does anyone have any experience with either of these machines?

I would like to know:

- Which machine is better as far as holding pressure between steaming milk per cup, will one be slower than the other?
- Which machine has better steaming capabilities; will I be able to keep up with my customer demands?
- Do you recommend either machine for the volume that I am doing?
- Does either machine get to optimal pressure fast or am I going to have to settle for waiting over an hour each day?
- Which machine is faster overall?
- Which machine is more reliable?
- Will either machine have problems when I constantly turn on and off the power?
- What do you recommend for my needs?
-Which machine do you like better overall?

Thank you in advance for your recommendations. I greatly appreciate your expertise and knowledge.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 2,973
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Fri Dec 20, 2013, 7:45am
Subject: Re: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

General advice.  Get the machine that you can get service on so you are not down long when it breaks. There are roasters that will often provide a machine if you get their coffee.

In the mean time, upgrade grinder and replace the Pstat on your current machine.  I think there is probably a good shot that will fix it.  This assumes your water gets hot enough, the hour warm up time seems normal to me.

I have seen some outside carts set up for lever machines and run off propane and batteries.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,499
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Dec 20, 2013, 10:42am
Subject: Re: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

Yes, what Helen said,
The brand and model of machine is not as important as local service.

The hour and a half to warm up, is that until you get pressure in the boiler or is that until the machine is stable. It is normal for a commercial machine to take an hour or more to become stable but you should have pressure at about 10 minutes.

Is the lack of pressure when pulling shots or is it the boiler pressure you are talking about? If it is pulling shots, it sounds like a pump issue. If it is waiting to get the first pressure, then you have heater issues. If you have a multi part heater element, you may have lost part of one. Has this been the whole time you have owned the machine or is it something new?

Sometimes people will disable one or more elements of a multi element heater to drop the required current for the machine to run on. This comes at the expense of long warm up times and recovery times.

Think of it like this. You are trying to heat a gallon of water. Which will do the job faster? A 30,000 btu burner or a tea candle? By removing elements of the heater, you lower the power requirement for it to run on but you, in effect are heating the water with a tea candle.

If this is a new problem, you may have burned out one element and thus the machine it's self did this.

As Helen said, very often carts are run on gas powered machines for the very reason of limited power to run on.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
christianoleary
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Glendale, AZ
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Mac Digit
Grinder: La San Marco
Drip: Bunn
Posted Fri Dec 20, 2013, 5:25pm
Subject: Re: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

General advice.  Get the machine that you can get service on so you are not down long when it breaks. There are roasters that will often provide a machine if you get their coffee.

Posted December 20, 2013 link

Thank you for the advice, I will talk to some local roasters.

In the mean time, upgrade grinder and replace the Pstat on your current machine.  I think there is probably a good shot that will fix it.  This assumes your water gets hot enough, the hour warm up time seems normal to me.


The tech that I have been talking to suggested that I make sure the liquid level probe was vertical, insuring that it was reading the water level lower than higher so that I would be getting an optimal pressure to water ratio. I did this, but it did not help. I also took the probe out to make sure there was no scale build up. He also told me to listen for a clicking sound when the boiler was filling up and that this would be the pstat working. When I steam, and the machine goes down past 1 bar of pressure, I shut it off and listen for the click when refilling. I hear a click at about 1 bar, and again at about 1.2 bars where the pressure gauge stops. The tech told me that this is the pstat working correctly.

Do you still think that I should replace the pstat just to be safe? Or does it sound like it's working correctly to you also?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
christianoleary
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Glendale, AZ
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Mac Digit
Grinder: La San Marco
Drip: Bunn
Posted Fri Dec 20, 2013, 6:15pm
Subject: Re: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

calblacksmith Said:

The hour and a half to warm up, is that until you get pressure in the boiler or is that until the machine is stable. It is normal for a commercial machine to take an hour or more to become stable but you should have pressure at about 10 minutes.

Posted December 20, 2013 link

Sorry, I was a little too general in my first post. The hour and a half is to get up past 1 bar for pressure in the boiler.

Is the lack of pressure when pulling shots or is it the boiler pressure you are talking about? If it is pulling shots, it sounds like a pump issue. If it is waiting to get the first pressure, then you have heater issues. If you have a multi part heater element, you may have lost part of one. Has this been the whole time you have owned the machine or is it something new?

Sometimes people will disable one or more elements of a multi element heater to drop the required current for the machine to run on. This comes at the expense of long warm up times and recovery times.

The shots come out fine, I never thought about it being a problem with a multi-part heater element. It has been like this the entire time I've owned it (about 3 months). I forgot to mention that I bought it from a guy who used it in his home, so this sounds very plausible to me. I do not have much experience with espresso machine repair and troubleshooting, how would I go about figuring out if an element has been disabled? Would you recommend that I look in to this myself? I am all for learning the ins and outs of my appliances so that I can fix them when they break down. Thank you kindly, you have been very helpful.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 2,973
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sat Dec 21, 2013, 1:30pm
Subject: Re: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

Cal has more experience with commercial machines let him advise you.  Mine is a light duty commercial machine that runs on 110.  Oscar could make a good back up cart machine if you find a used one at a good price.  I am catering a party with mine Christmas eve.  I am looking forward to seeing how fast I can pump them out for a crowd.  I am sure the machine will still be waiting on me.... I am slow.

If I had cart I totally would go old school with a lever and propane, but that is just me.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
christianoleary
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Glendale, AZ
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Mac Digit
Grinder: La San Marco
Drip: Bunn
Posted Sat Dec 21, 2013, 3:17pm
Subject: Re: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

I am catering a party with mine Christmas eve.  I am looking forward to seeing how fast I can pump them out for a crowd.  I am sure the machine will still be waiting on me.... I am slow.

Posted December 21, 2013 link

Awesome, I have a Breville Barista Express that I use as a backup. It can't keep up with commercial demands, so I have been looking at a few other machines to use as a backup including the Oscar. Let me know how the party goes, I would like to know if it is capable of commercial demands on a small scale.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 2,973
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sat Dec 21, 2013, 3:58pm
Subject: Re: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

Mine is heavily modded.  Not sure it is fair to compare to stock.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 2,973
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Tue Dec 24, 2013, 1:02pm
Subject: Re: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

I averaged  one shot every 3 minutes and the machine was always waiting on me . l know that is not fast but it gives you a base line.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
christianoleary
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Glendale, AZ
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Mac Digit
Grinder: La San Marco
Drip: Bunn
Posted Tue Dec 24, 2013, 2:32pm
Subject: Re: La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi II VS Rancilio Epoca S1
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

I averaged  one shot every 3 minutes and the machine was always waiting on me . l know that is not fast but it gives you a base line.

Posted December 24, 2013 link

Awesome. Thanks for the info. Something to keep in mind.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > La Spaziale S1...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.405554056168)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+