Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
Rocket Espresso R58 Double Boiler -  Everything you need for the perfect shot!
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > What do you...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
Author Messages
coffeeinquirer
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Dec 2013
Posts: 10
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013, 1:58pm
Subject: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

What are your thoughts on the Breville Dual Boiler if bought along with the Baratza Vario Grinder?  I would greatly appreciate any recommendations and advice you have regarding espresso machines as well as grinders.  Thank you!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013, 2:18pm
Subject: Re: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

Welcome to CG!
First off can we get a bit more info regarding your situation?  Check out the "Sticky thread about buying a setup Here"
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
coffeeinquirer
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Dec 2013
Posts: 10
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013, 3:54pm
Subject: Re: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

1)  What kind of drinks do you like/want to make? Espresso, cappuccinos.
2)  How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself needing to make at any one time? 4 shots at one time.
3)  How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself making in any given week?  Probably 12 shots a day x 7 = around 84 shots
4)  Can you plumb a machine directly into the water supply, or do you want/need a pour over machine with its own reservoir? Needs to have its own reservoir.
5)  Do you have a 20-amp circuit available, or only a (standard) 15-amp circuit? No restrictions.
6)  What is your budget for a new machine?  Does that also include a grinder?  If not, what is your budget for a grinder? $2000 including grinder.
7)  Are you willing to buy used or do you need new equipment?  New equipment.
8)  Do you have the essential accessories (decent tamper, knockbox, the works)?  I would need new accessories.


Also, do you happen to know anything about the ASCASO DUBBVMG Dream Up Espresso Machine?

As I am a complete beginner when it comes to espresso machines (I previously had a Francis Francis! espresso/cappuccino machine), I would appreciate any feedback, but bear with me that I may not understand all the terminology, etc.  Thank you so much!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
coffeeinquirer
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Dec 2013
Posts: 10
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013, 7:09pm
Subject: Re: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

Anyone? :)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,113
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013, 8:16pm
Subject: Re: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

The BDB and Vario are each huge value.  As a setup they represent a formidable combination.  However, neither is perfect.  

The BDB is loaded with all sorts of user-friendly features like pre-infusion, a stabilized head, digitally displayed temperature, good recovery time between drinks, etc., etc.  It won't fight you as you climb the learning curve which is necessary to making good espresso.  But it won't climb it for you either.  

The issue is build quality.  The BDB is a very high end "consumer" machine; it is not a "prosumer."  Whether or not that's enough of a negative to turn you away is an open question only you can answer.  

Machines with similar feature sets and levels of user friendliness, but better execution run around $2K -- not counting the grinder.  

The Vario is as little as you can spend for a "good" grinder.  It is a good grinder, it is not a very good grinder.  It's fairly well made for the price; but it's no Swiss watch.  The burr set is smallish.  The taste signature is loaded towards the bottom notes of espresso (chocolate and nuts) and away from the high notes (florals and fruits).  The adjustment mechanism is a bit sloppy.  People who are critical about grind quality say that it must be used "espresso only."  Supposedly it must be "dialed in" for espresso when it returns there after being used for any kind of coarser brew grind.

I'm not really comfortable recommending specific pieces of equipment without knowing a great deal about the person who's asking.  But to the extent it means anything if I were buying a setup for either of my kids, with a budget of $2K or less, it would be BDB plus Vario... with the reservation that Breville will be bringing out a "New and Improved" version of the BDB, the 920, sometime in the next few months and I'd be disposed to wait for it.  

BDL
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Frost
Senior Member
Frost
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,071
Location: Sierra
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Venus
Grinder: Lelit PL53
Roaster: Poppery I w/variac, MET, BT
Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013, 8:29pm
Subject: Re: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

coffeeinquirer Said:

......

3)  How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself making in any given week?  Probably 12 shots a day x 7 = around 84 shots
......

Posted December 2, 2013 link

That's 4368 shots a year.... I would look to something more robust than a BDB for this fairly heavy home use.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013, 8:50pm
Subject: Re: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

The newest Ascaso Dream Up is a step up from the old Francis Francis machines that they used to be clones of. The newest have a little three-way solenoid brew valve rather that the rubber-plug valvolina of older machines for far better pressure regulation at the portafilter.  In my opinion, the Ascaso, like all little disposables, have far too small a boiler and are annoying as their temperatures vary terribly (The element is outside of the boiler, pressed up against it), but they are as cute as a button.  If you're wanting to spend $1000 on a single-boiler-dual-use thing, you can probably get an Imat Professional for the same price as the Asscaso.  
Many on this list would point out that you would be happy with a Cuadra.  They're no longer available for $1000, but they must not be much higher. Check out 1st line's ads (In every corner of this page). Even if it now costs $1300, you can upgrade all of it's shortcomings for another $200, spend $500 on a grinder and hit your target with a Heat Exchanger, E-61 setup.
I strongly dislike the Asscaso based on the fact that it is targetted at people who don't want a decent espresso machine. It goes to lengths to point out that its pump runs at 15 Bars without seeming to care that the pump is only one small factor in the pressure that the espresso brews at. (If you run a 41 watt vibe pump at 15Bars continuously, you will have craptastic coffee ((Because you haven't ground it accurately))and kill the pathetic pump, you probably already know this, but now I'm ranting). It claims to have a user friendly interface with toggle switches and pressure gauge, when the gauge is actually a thermometer (Reading the temperature on the outside of the boiler). It's like selling a diesel truck and writing "With HD platinum spark plugs" on the box, because it's the catch-phrase of the day.
Alright. Rant done.
BDB is a good machine if it's what you want. Both it and the Asscaso are a step up from the SBDU Francis, but neither are going to be the machine you're forever satisfied with.
If you find a good deal on something used, go for it.  It might be great for a few years and resell for nearly your original price.
Read a lot of reviews. A $2000 budget really opens up your opportunity to get something decent.
I lean toward a used Giotto and a semi-commercial grinder, but that's because I have had great luck and am very willing to work on the bastards to force them to conform to my whims.
If you want easy, and don't intend to work on it, Breville is known for making "Out of the box" consumer appliances and people like the BDB.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
coffeeinquirer
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Dec 2013
Posts: 10
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013, 9:22pm
Subject: Re: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

Thank you for your informative comments!  Due to the fact that I do not know anything about using a heat exchanger, would the Cuadra still be the best option for a novice?  Lastly, could you please recommend the best grinder up to $500?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,015
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Tue Dec 3, 2013, 7:50am
Subject: Re: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

If you have the room a used commercial grinder like super jolly is good for 350-$500 but I did not have the room.  I got a vario W and I was very happy with it for over a year till I upgraded to a used K30.  (one of the smallest commercial grinders)  Vario delivers tastes much like the jolly in a smaller package that is less robust.

I did not have your budget so I went used.  My machine is great, robust heavy duty but it has some flaws that I have fixed over time.  The two most important fixes should be done to the new machines at the factory, but that is a rant for another day.  I really liked the Cuadra at the 1k price to bad it is not still there.  I agree your usage seems high and I would be even more reluctant to suggest a BDB than I normally am.

At your budget and high usage I would probably look for a "buyers remorse" unit from chriscoffee so I could get a 2k machine for closer to 1500 to stay on budget.  I would think between now and end of January there would be a few of those.  Or I would wait and save for a 2k machines.  There is a big jump in features from $300-500 machines to 1k and another one at 1600-2k.

Having skipped over the single boilers and started higher up the upgrade ladder, I have avoided a lot of upgradistis.  So, I think if you start with a 2k machine I personally would be happy with that machine for many many years.  I think with a good 2k machine I would never need to upgrade at all.  But some people want new cars every year so you might want to one day but you would not need to.

If you read all of the buying post at the top of the forum it gives an over view of the types of machines.  HX is very good and easy to use.  Traditional Double boilers are easy to use as well but with 2 of everything they are more expensive.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Tue Dec 3, 2013, 9:43am
Subject: Re: What do you think is the best espresso machine for up to $2000?
 

If you want to stick with new stock take a look at the Nuova Simonelli Oscar + Macap M4 at Chris Coffee.  Both machines are rated for light commercial use which IMO is a good fit if your gonna be producing that number of drinks.  You will be able to bang out back to back shots and drinks with both items.  Macap's are on par with the Mazzer's but are more affordable. Both will cost about $1700. Make sure you pick out a nice 58mm tamper and at least a 14oz frothing pitcher.


Oscar by Nuova Simonelli
MACAP M4 Stepless
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > What do you...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Support Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids is a non profit charity working with farming communities around the world. Donate today!
www.coffeekids.org
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.416900157928)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+