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Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 656
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 2:32pm
Subject: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

Can I just throw my stainless drip tray and grille in the dishwasher on normal cycle? They're stainless steel. I know this may sound like a dumb question but I just want to make sure.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 3:02pm
Subject: Re: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

Yes, no harm, no foul.
Mine only takes a few seconds in the regular sink with a brush so it never goes into the dishwasher. YMMV

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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__________
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 893
Location: .
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Machine now fixed ;o)
Grinder: None
Vac Pot: None
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 5:07am
Subject: Re: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

Markarian Said:

Can I just throw my stainless drip tray and grille in the dishwasher on normal cycle? They're stainless steel. I know this may sound like a dumb question but I just want to make sure.

Posted November 5, 2013 link

Yup, provided it's all S/S and no bits of mild steel welded or attached to it - but make sure it's properly dried - depending on the quality of the S/S, you can still get rust spots on some types.
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1stline
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1stline
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 495
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Undisclosed
Grinder: Indisclosed
Vac Pot: Bodum Electric
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 9:19am
Subject: Re: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

Markarian Said:

Can I just throw my stainless drip tray and grille in the dishwasher on normal cycle? They're stainless steel. I know this may sound like a dumb question but I just want to make sure.

Posted November 5, 2013 link

As an attorney would answer, it depends!

Most drip trays that have welds (usually not in places that water come into) should not as they will rust. Once they rust, the welds will typically come apart.

Therefore, once should only place a stainless steel drip tray in a dishwasher ONLY IF the manufacturer states DISHWASHER SAFE. If it does NOT state DISHWASHER SAFE, then it is not dishwasher safe. This pretty much applies to any product purchased for the kitchen.

 
Sincerely,
Jim Piccinich
Business Partner
1st-line Equipment, LLC
www.1st-line.com

Follow us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/1stline
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:44am
Subject: Re: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

As a counter to the Attorney, :P

We are discussing Stainless Steel, an alloy of steel that is designed to not rust. If the manufacturing process was followed properly, when welded, stainless steel should be passivated and therefore, the weld will not rust. Now if the weld does rust, it was not processed properly after welding!

As the proper manufacturing procedure was not followed, the rust was a result of faulty manufacturing, thus, the drip tray should be replaced as defective! (good luck with an out of manufacture machine but we are not referring to one of those, are we????? :D)

Just being argumentative ;P

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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1stline
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1stline
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 495
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Undisclosed
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Vac Pot: Bodum Electric
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:18pm
Subject: Re: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

calblacksmith Said:

As a counter to the Attorney, :P

We are discussing Stainless Steel, an alloy of steel that is designed to not rust. If the manufacturing process was followed properly, when welded, stainless steel should be passivated and therefore, the weld will not rust. Now if the weld does rust, it was not processed properly after welding!

As the proper manufacturing procedure was not followed, the rust was a result of faulty manufacturing, thus, the drip tray should be replaced as defective! (good luck with an out of manufacture machine but we are not referring to one of those, are we????? :D)

Just being argumentative ;P

Posted November 6, 2013 link

Well, again, it depends. The manufacturer can design a stainless drip tray where the welds are outside of the area that contains the spent and/or disregarded liquids and coffee grinds. The manufacturer does not have to follow the rule of passivating outside of the area where the water is not expected to touch in the normal course of operating the machine. Or, the welds are not passivated because passivating them will discolor the polished external finish.

Thus, if the drip tray is placed in the dishwasher and the welds degrade from rust, the manufacturer has an easy out and will state that the the unit was damaged by placing in the dishwasher or improperly cleaned/cared for. Therefore, the manufacturer "may" cover it under warranty, but if the welds break after warranty, good luck trying to get a free replacement.

Again, the general rule of thumb is not to assume something is dishwasher safe UNLESS the manufacturer explicitly states that it is dishwasher safe. Simple rule of thumb for any product purchased.

 
Sincerely,
Jim Piccinich
Business Partner
1st-line Equipment, LLC
www.1st-line.com

Follow us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/1stline
Twitter: http://twitter.com/1stline
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 5:00pm
Subject: Re: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

Jim,

I was only poking fun at the lawyer aspect.

Didn't you see all of my smiley faces????? :D:D

Honestly though there is no reason to not passivate the welds as it helps to return the metal to its non heat discolored state after welding. The easiest way to passivate the material is to dip it in a solution so the entire part would be covered whether it was discolored or not.

To not passivate any weld in stainless steel does not make sense because it would be like using bare carbon steel without paint or protection. It would very quickly rust.

Hopefully I know at least a little bit about the subject of welding. Among other things I do there, I am paid by Boeing aircraft to be a Certified Welding Inspector! :D :D

Then again even if the welded joint did start to rust, it would take a very long time before it will as you said fall apart. The weld in the joint is stronger than the material on either side of the weld.

I have no intention of taking this as a legal discussion. I am merely pointing out the facts of what happens in a weld joint.

What the lawyers do is an entirely different subject and honestly what  lawyers do is beyond
Any logic I can make heads or tails of! On that point I am sure that you are two hundred percent correct!!!! :D:D:D

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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1stline
Senior Member
1stline
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 495
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Undisclosed
Grinder: Indisclosed
Vac Pot: Bodum Electric
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 5:49pm
Subject: Re: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

calblacksmith Said:

Jim,

I was only poking fun at the lawyer aspect.

Didn't you see all of my smiley faces????? :D:D

Honestly though there is no reason to not passivate the welds as it helps to return the metal to its non heat discolored state after welding. The easiest way to passivate the material is to dip it in a solution so the entire part would be covered whether it was discolored or not.

To not passivate any weld in stainless steel does not make sense because it would be like using bare carbon steel without paint or protection. It would very quickly rust.

Hopefully I know at least a little bit about the subject of welding. Among other things I do there, I am paid by Boeing aircraft to be a Certified Welding Inspector! :D :D

Then again even if the welded joint did start to rust, it would take a very long time before it will as you said fall apart. The weld in the joint is stronger than the material on either side of the weld.

I have no intention of taking this as a legal discussion. I am merely pointing out the facts of what happens in a weld joint.

What the lawyers do is an entirely different subject and honestly what  lawyers do is beyond
Any logic I can make heads or tails of! On that point I am sure that you are two hundred percent correct!!!! :D:D:D

Posted November 6, 2013 link

No worries, I understood where you are coming from!

I am saying all this because I have seen a drip tray have its small spot welds rust and disintegrate due to a dishwasher. The spot welds on this particular drip tray did not hold. They were not passivated because the manufacturer did not expect the owners to place a drip tray in the dishwasher - which can be a very harsh environment.

Again, no worries....

 
Sincerely,
Jim Piccinich
Business Partner
1st-line Equipment, LLC
www.1st-line.com

Follow us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/1stline
Twitter: http://twitter.com/1stline
Blog: http://1st-line.blogspot.com/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/1stlineespresso
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,404
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 8:06pm
Subject: Re: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

Markarian Said:

Can I just throw my stainless drip tray and grille in the dishwasher on normal cycle? They're stainless steel. I know this may sound like a dumb question but I just want to make sure.

Posted November 5, 2013 link

If it's Mirror finish stainless, definitely not, but whatever steel, I would strongly recommend you dont.
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Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 656
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 4:05am
Subject: Re: Drip tray in the dishwasher
 

Jim, you sold me the machine and are the only guy in the US of A supporting them so should I stick it in the dishwasher or just scrub it by hand? I figured in this particular case you would know best. :)

Cal, is there something I can apply to the welds to seal them from water damage but would stand up to the heat of the hot water?

Already there are tiny rust spots on the weld on the bottom since I rinse the tray after each session. I never bothered drying the bottom because I thought "Hey, it's SS, I'll just let it air dry and wipe off the top with a microfiber cloth!" Should I towel off the whole thing? How is that different from the dry cycle in the dishwasher if removed after? And on that note, it kind of makes me curious, what's the lead time for getting parts from Heidelberg in case I do something ill-advised to my beloved Technika?

And is it me, or does Bezzera and ECM Germany use the same drip tray? :D Good to know if they do.
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