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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > V2B noise  
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Tonyv138
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jun 2013
Posts: 74
Location: tx
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: V2B
Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:59pm
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

Thanks Dave.

I am glad the symptoms co-inside
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 1:03pm
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the assurances. I'll see if I can find how-to or videos about opening up the V2B. Just to make sure I have all the correct tools and that I take things off in the correct order. My experience has been that for some things, taking off the parts/panels in the right order makes a world of difference, and I'm going to bet the V2B is very much like that.

Also, just so everyone knows, I checked out the Google Analytics for my video. I now have 13 views from Italy, whereas a few days ago I had none. Looks like people in Italy are taking a look, I'm hoping at least one of those views is someone from Quick Mill.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 1:42pm
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

CarloM Said:

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the assurances. I'll see if I can find how-to or videos about opening up the V2B. Just to make sure I have all the correct tools and that I take things off in the correct order. My experience has been that for some things, taking off the parts/panels in the right order makes a world of difference, and I'm going to bet the V2B is very much like that.

Also, just so everyone knows, I checked out the Google Analytics for my video. I now have 13 views from Italy, whereas a few days ago I had none. Looks like people in Italy are taking a look, I'm hoping at least one of those views is someone from Quick Mill.

Posted November 7, 2013 link

Opening it up is easy (only 5 screws). Ass for QM looking at it, they might figure out what happening, but I doubt it.

I used previous knowledge of issues on a La Spaz Vivaldi when I reviewed it and some others when repairing a friends Duetto, I actually we came up with a better boiler gasket (than the standard teflon ring) for the early models which were prone to leaking. It's also very easy to get heating elements in and out, requires very little force to put them in and to get it leak free...been going strong for 2 years now. With both those machines certain things happened, which led me to what I hope is the cause/solution here. In addition I have come across similar on other dual boiler rotary pumped machines.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 6:34pm
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

OK, my machine has been fine all day, so here is the fix

Click Here (coffeetime.wikidot.com)

Disclaimer follows.....enjoy and be careful. Don't forget to check with Chris Coffee before you do it.

For those of you without a Vetrano DB, don't comment, because I'm not interested. For those of you with the Vetrano DB it should solve your problems. However, always remember to use good quality water, try not to let it suck air. It will happen on any Dual boiler machine with a rotary pump that gets air in brew boiler. It probably won't happen on a plumbed machine (unless you got a lot of air in there).

The Vetrano DB might be a tad more sensitive to air than some other machines, because it does have a small inlet pipe and if you have any plastic standoff or softening cartridge (which I don't like anyway), remove it, because they are reducing the bore still further. Also I run a lower offset than you guys do, 11 or 12C. I am probably not running my boiler as hot as you and this also helps if you get a small quantity of air. So you might want to think about whether an offset of 12 would suit you better (and still use your normal brew temps, because raising them, just defeats the object of a lower offset). Perhaps your shots are to hot (big hint).

I'm quite busy with a new roaster project and also have about 5 machines to review (unfortunately). So if any of you do this successfully, please can you try and help others on the forum, who may not be as gifted as you on doing this procedure. Oh and feedback success, as I'd like to know it's worked for all of you. if it doesn't work for some, yours may be due to another problem e.g. fauly anti backflow, scaled anti backflow valve etc..

Dave

P.S. If you don't have a syringe, DON'T get the bright idea of ensuring the boiler is full by plugging it in and lifting the lever, you would probably regret it!
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 11:51pm
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

Hi Dave - thanks again for such a thorough investigation and write-up. I'm going to wait and see what CCS says QM's response is. Since both you and the CCS techs are convinced this will do no long-term damage, I don't mind giving them a few more days to come up with a solution. If they come up with a different one, I'll try theirs first to maintain warranty coverage. If it doesn't work I'll ask specifically if I can try yours and not void the warranty.

Just curious, do you have any idea where I would have been able to introduce the air into the main boiler? Since my machine didn't do it for the first month, I'm not sure where it could have happened. I did have to drain the boilers once when I had that chemical smell, but I can't swear that the noise started right after that draining, though I suppose it's possible.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 5:19am
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

CarloM Said:

Hi Dave - thanks again for such a thorough investigation and write-up. I'm going to wait and see what CCS says QM's response is. Since both you and the CCS techs are convinced this will do no long-term damage, I don't mind giving them a few more days to come up with a solution. If they come up with a different one, I'll try theirs first to maintain warranty coverage. If it doesn't work I'll ask specifically if I can try yours and not void the warranty.

Posted November 7, 2013 link

Wow...this shows faith in my ability, I shouldn't have bothered...lol
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 8:42am
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

DavecUK Said:

Wow...this shows faith in my ability, I shouldn't have bothered...lol

Posted November 8, 2013 link

It's not meant that way at all. If anything, I was prepared to try your method immediately. But when I read your instructions, it was filled with warnings about potentially invalidating the warranty, etc. so then it scared me for a bit!

Since we have notified CCS of the issue I just want to make sure that trying your solution doesn't invalidate my 2 year warranty with them. Part of buying my machine from CCS is that they extend the warranty by one year, and that piece of mind was invaluable for me before dropping 2K on an item. Trust me, if they don't have an answer within a few days, I'm contacting them with your solution and saying "hey if you and QM don't have a solution I'd like to try this as long as it doesn't invalidate my warranty".

I (and most of us here) have full faith in your abilities. Thanks again for all that you do!
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 8:53am
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

DAVE

DavecUK Said:

Wow...this shows faith in my ability, I shouldn't have bothered...lol

Posted November 8, 2013 link

I have a couple of things to ask please.

My husband read your fix for the GRR noise and said that since you mentioned that the air would be absorbed eventually, the noise would stop and that no harm was being done to the machine, he was going to just do nothing right now.  He said that he is worried that he might do something to make things worse inadvertently.  He was very impressed with your instructions and pictures and said to say thanks for all your trouble.

The other thing is, last night my husband was going to make my after dinner coffee.  He turned on the machine and the heating light and PID came on as usual.  When he lifted the lever they both went off.  The green power light for the brew boiler stayed on.  He didn't have the steam boiler turned on.  I had read the 2B manual and remembered that this would happen if the water level in the tank was low.  Of course I fill the tank every night so it was about 3/4 full.  I removed the tank and poured the water into a pitcher.  Then I turned the tank upside down and back up several times to make the float slide up and down.  I poured the water back in and put the tank back in the machine and everything worked fine.  This morning it was fine too.

I did email CCS last night and this morning I had an email saying it was probably the float.  They asked what stage RO water I was using as if it had no minerals it would affect the sensor and also leach minerals out of the boilers and pipes.  I buy the water at the grocery store and have no idea what stage it is.  I have some really good test strips and I check every bottle and it consistently reads 1.5 grains.  The colors start at a true green for 0 and then an olive green for 1.5.  The next color, for 3 grains, is a mustard yellow.  The color I get is always the olive green.  I can hold the strip next to the color chart on the bottle and the color matches for 1.5 grains.  

I am adding baking soda as you recommended but should I be adding some tap water?  Our tap water is quite hard and that is why I am buying water at the store.  I don't know what ratio to use for mixing RO and tap and am not sure what hardness reading I should be looking for.  

If you can advise me on this, I would certainly appreciate it.

Thank you!
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 693
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 4:40pm
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

DavecUK Said:

OK, my machine has been fine all day, so here is the fix.....

Posted November 7, 2013 link

Thank you for your work!

I think I understand that you are saying that air is trapping in the top of the brew boiler. Since air is compressible, this allows the pump to run at a lower pressure on start up until it compresses the air in the tank and allow the pressure to build to full pressure. Is that correct?
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 7:59pm
Subject: Re: V2B noise
 

JaniceAnn Said:

d down.  I poured the water back in and put the tank back in the machine and everything worked fine.  This morning it was fine too.

I did email CCS last night and this morning I had an email saying it was probably the float.  They asked what stage RO water I was using as if it had no minerals it would affect the sensor and also leach minerals out of the boilers and pipes.  I buy the water at the grocery store and have no idea what stage it is.  I have some really good test strips and I check every bottle and it consistently reads 1.5 grains.  The colors start at a true green for 0 and then an olive green for 1.5.  The next color, for 3 grains, is a mustard yellow.  The color I get is always the olive green.  I can hold the strip next to the color chart on the bottle and the color matches for 1.5 grains.  

I am adding baking soda as you recommended but should I be adding some tap water?  Our tap water is quite hard and that is why I am buying water at the store.  I don't know what ratio to use for mixing RO and tap and am not sure what hardness reading I should be looking for.  

If you can advise me on this, I would certainly appreciate it.

Thank you!

Posted November 8, 2013 link

No need to add tap water, just a touch of bicarbonate of soda (if that's what you call baking soda) will do the trick as per the Wiki instructions. This will prevent it leeching copper out of the boilers and pipes. It will also allow the water sensor to work. I have actually use pure RO (TDS less than 4) water in all machines I tested to try and find one where the autofill sensor in the steam boiler doesn't work properly and I've never found one yet. Your problem was either a stuck float or just the positioning of the tank. There is a small hall effect sensor in the wall of the water carrier and a magnet in the float, as the float moves the magnet affects the sensor.
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