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Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Advice/Help...  
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 6:35am
Subject: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

Yesterday I returned home to a puddle around my Duetto 3, the machine was on with steam boiler off. After some mopping up and drying I started to investigate and with the drip tray out I could see a drip of water coming from the bottom center of the steam boiler. I took the top and sides off but I can't see anything from up there and there is no sign of a leak above.

I then powered everything back up and heated the steam boiler, no leak. I turned steam boiler back off after letting it fill with water from the tank, no leak. Over the evening I heated and cooled multiple times and no evidence of water. Shut everything down before going to bed and put a towel under the machine, I awoke to a wet towel.

I am under warrenty at CCS so no worries there but I also like to fix what I can before shipping the machine off or driving 4.5 hrs to take it there. The problem is how to get at anything. It appears if I put D3 on its side I can get the back heat shield off for the reservoir and get the bottom panels off but looking closely this might not be as easy as I would hope.

Has anyone gotten into the guts of their Duetto? I could some advice on this before I attempt to try it.

The good news is if I leave the machine on the leak must evaporate off before making a puddle so I have had espresso all morning, lol.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,744
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, 2 Macap M4s, OE...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 7:18am
Subject: Re: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

Hey Rob,

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I changed the hot water pipe on my Duetto about 8 months or so ago. There's a single nut on the machine underside holding the boiler in place (in case you plan to take the boiler out). Of course, there are a lot of components attached to the boiler, so it's a very big job just to remove it. When I did my repair, I propped the machine up on blocks, to get underneath it. Then I loosened what I needed to get to the pipe fitting. I had a second pair of handes helping me, otherwise I would have had to do more loosening or actually remove the steam boiler. I had a little fun with my helper...didn't tell him that when I remove the pipe there's going to be a huge rush of water all over the place. His reaction was priceless...and it made my job more enjoyable.

I wish you luck, and hope you figure out the culprit soon!

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 452
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 7:19am
Subject: Re: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

When it is under warranty, don't try to fix it.
You paid good money to get a machine with a warranty, let CCS fix it.  If you try and fail to fix it, you've wasted your time, forfeited your warranty and potentially worsened the machine's situation.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,744
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, 2 Macap M4s, OE...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 7:23am
Subject: Re: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

SStones Said:

When it is under warranty, don't try to fix it.
You paid good money to get a machine with a warranty, let CCS fix it.  If you try and fail to fix it, you've wasted your time, forfeited your warranty and potentially worsened the machine's situation.

Posted October 27, 2013 link

...and of course he knows.  But...I'd call Chris'. They actually told me they were fine with me changing out my water pipe, and gave me some phone support.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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uscfroadie
Senior Member
uscfroadie
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
Posts: 380
Location: San Antonio
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Olympia Cremina, Breville...
Grinder: HG One (71mm), Forte, Zass...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Nope
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 7:42am
Subject: Re: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

Sounds like your seam boiler is overfilling.  Having it turned off just means the heating element isn't on, but the water fill function will still do its part to keep the steam boiler filled.  

I made a picture for you to use as a reference.  I'd check your vacuum breaker (green circle) for proper function/sealing and your water level probe (red circle) for scale (you'll need to unscrew it when the machine is powered off and cold, and be careful not to damage the Teflon insert/gasket.  If you have scale on your probe, the autofill will run until it hits a level on the probe without scale.  Remove it by soaking just the scaled tip in vinegar or citric acid, or you can just take a single-edge razor blade and scrape it off carefully).  This could creep up until you have water coming out of your vacuum breaker, because it won't close until you have sufficient pressure in the steam boiler.

The other cause could just be a leak at the heating element.  If leaking there, it'll do so when cold and will seal up as it heats up.  If the leak is there, you should be able to see a slow drip until it warms up (assuming you have an access panel for future heating element removal/replacement).

I would leave the panels off until you find the source of the leak.  Also, if you have scale on such a new machine, you seriously need to use better water in your machine or it'll die a very premature death.

If you are not comfortable doing this, send it CCS.  If you call them tomorrow, they will transfer you to a tech who will walk you through the process.  

Hope this helps

Picture below taken from CCS's site and is of the Duetto 3, so this *should* match your machine's internals.

uscfroadie: Duetto.jpg
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 7:47am
Subject: Re: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

SStones Said:

When it is under warranty, don't try to fix it.
You paid good money to get a machine with a warranty, let CCS fix it.  If you try and fail to fix it, you've wasted your time, forfeited your warranty and potentially worsened the machine's situation.

Posted October 27, 2013 link

Good advice and probably one I should follow.

I will call Jason at CCS tomorrow. He has walked me through a ton of repairs on my Oscar, many while under warrenty. If he says get it to him then that's what I will do.

Still I would like to know a bit more on getting into this machine since one day I will be out of warrenty and I like fixing things myself. My gut tells me the problem I have is something needing some tightening but with out getting in there I can't be sure.
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uscfroadie
Senior Member
uscfroadie
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
Posts: 380
Location: San Antonio
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Olympia Cremina, Breville...
Grinder: HG One (71mm), Forte, Zass...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Nope
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 7:50am
Subject: Re: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

SStones Said:

When it is under warranty, don't try to fix it.
You paid good money to get a machine with a warranty, let CCS fix it.  If you try and fail to fix it, you've wasted your time, forfeited your warranty and potentially worsened the machine's situation.

Posted October 27, 2013 link

Not sure where you came up with a forfeiture of a warranty comment.  CCS always tries to walk a customer through the fix over the phone and uses sending it in as the last resort.
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CSME9
Senior Member
CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 272
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Tea, Rancilio Silvia,...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Moka Pot
Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 7:54am
Subject: Re: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

I believe the D3 has a vented tube vacuum breaker valve so it should have vented to the drip tray not inside the case, the boiler probe could be scaled or the refill solenoid could have a bit of debris. Both should be easy fixes.
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:16am
Subject: Re: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

CSME9 Said:

I believe the D3 has a vented tube vacuum breaker valve so it should have vented to the drip tray not inside the case, the boiler probe could be scaled or the refill solenoid could have a bit of debris. Both should be easy fixes.

Posted October 27, 2013 link

The drip is forming on the bottom center of the steam boiler, with the insulation on the boiler the water can't really travel to this spot, IMO it is coming from down there.

The vented tube is up above and visible and functioning. There are some leads going to the spot where the drip forms, not sure exactly what they are but they cannot be accessed with out taking it apart.
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uscfroadie
Senior Member
uscfroadie
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
Posts: 380
Location: San Antonio
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Olympia Cremina, Breville...
Grinder: HG One (71mm), Forte, Zass...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Nope
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:22am
Subject: Re: Advice/Help Duetto 3 leaking
 

germantownrob Said:

The drip is forming on the bottom center of the steam boiler, with the insulation on the boiler the water can't really travel to this spot, IMO it is coming from down there.

Posted October 27, 2013 link

Do you have an access panel on the bottom of the machine to give you access to the steam boiler heating element?  If so, that should allow you easy access to see the leak firsthand if it's coming from there.
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