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Rocket R58, can't line pressure preinfuse, and has anyone quieted down the pump?
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benpiff
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benpiff
Joined: 5 Feb 2010
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Location: Portland, OR
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Espresso: RocketR58,GrimacMini,Vetrano
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Drip: Livia 90, NS Elli
Roaster: Sonofresco ADR
Posted Mon Oct 14, 2013, 11:32am
Subject: Rocket R58, can't line pressure preinfuse, and has anyone quieted down the pump?
 

Hi guys, I plumbed in the R58 to see if that would make things quieter, and it may have slightly but I'm hearing the unpleasant singing sound mid shot. If my other rotary experiences weren't so wonderfully smooth, I might think this is good enough. But I'm hoping there could be something improved in the way it's mounted, because what other difference is there?

Also, I backed off the micro switch to see how the R58 can preinfuse with my line pressure, and I get nothing throughout the whole range of the lever. Well, I can drain the preinfusion chamber as you can when attempting preinfusion with a non-plumbed machine, but that's not what I'm looking for. With my Brewtus, the brew pressure gauge moves up if I manually preinfuse. Not so with R58, what could be different here?

Anyone have any recommendations for these points, or for how to make the steam and hot water knobs rotate easier?

Here's my volume comparison, first video from reservoir:
http://youtu.be/tYQdLKi0L9k

Brewtus' sound:
http://youtu.be/9sUWbnKEjD8

 
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benpiff
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benpiff
Joined: 5 Feb 2010
Posts: 323
Location: Portland, OR
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: RocketR58,GrimacMini,Vetrano
Grinder: K10Fresh,LSM FK
Vac Pot: Vario,Pharos
Drip: Livia 90, NS Elli
Roaster: Sonofresco ADR
Posted Wed Oct 16, 2013, 10:27am
Subject: Today's shot
 

Bump, here's today's plumbed in shot:
http://youtu.be/Wls6IUeOEvs

 
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calblacksmith
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Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Oct 16, 2013, 10:55am
Subject: Re: Today's shot
 

Todays shot looks pretty good, how was it ?

As to the pre infusion, if it was happening, the gauge would show line pressure then ramp up to pump pressure when you switch on the pump. WHY you are not seeing it, I can't guess. It should be acting properly.

 
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benpiff
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benpiff
Joined: 5 Feb 2010
Posts: 323
Location: Portland, OR
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: RocketR58,GrimacMini,Vetrano
Grinder: K10Fresh,LSM FK
Vac Pot: Vario,Pharos
Drip: Livia 90, NS Elli
Roaster: Sonofresco ADR
Posted Wed Oct 16, 2013, 11:00am
Subject: Re: Today's shot
 

The shots are definitely good, the only limitation is my own roasting abilities.

My Brewtus III-R gauge would jump up when I lifted just past the midway point, so that's what I've been expecting. I don't understand how an E61 could not function in this way, unless something was possibly stuck or faulty inside. The machine has not had sufficient use to wear anything out, but I sure hope I don't have to ship this back to WLL for a solution :)

 
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pShoe
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Posted Wed Oct 16, 2013, 6:26pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58
 

I have no experience with line preinfuse, but from my research it happens at the middle lever position. As in you stop the lever at the middle point and the line pressure allows for the preinfuse. In the video you moved right pass the middle position. 2.5-3 bars at this middle point seems to be ideal.  People use a pressure regulator on the line, before the machine, to control the pressure.
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benpiff
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benpiff
Joined: 5 Feb 2010
Posts: 323
Location: Portland, OR
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: RocketR58,GrimacMini,Vetrano
Grinder: K10Fresh,LSM FK
Vac Pot: Vario,Pharos
Drip: Livia 90, NS Elli
Roaster: Sonofresco ADR
Posted Mon Oct 21, 2013, 2:59pm
Subject: Rocket R58, can't line pressure preinfuse, and has anyone quieted down the pump?
 

Whole Latte Love told me today that only the new Brewtus can manually preinfuse under line pressure, but it sounds like she was only familiar with how reservoir simulated preinfusion works. I found this frustrating as I've done it with a plumbed Brewtus III, and I believe that WLL told me in response to one of their youtube videos that the Brewtus IV didn't have any design changes for the preinfusion (even though they were endlessly squawking about it in the video. She said that if another machine does this, it's messed up. Should I just call back later and talk to someone else? Because this sounds at odds with everything I've ever read.

 
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
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Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
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Posted Mon Oct 21, 2013, 4:01pm
Subject: Re: Rocket can't line pressure preinfuse, and has anyone quieted down the pump?
 

When plumbed, if it is a "standard" E-61, with no portafilter locked, lifting the lever to the mid point where there is little or no resistance and then just a small amount more against the resistance and holding it there should cause water to flow out of the group without the pump running. The only way I can think of that to cause that to not happen is if there is some sort of valve or regulator after the pump that does not allow water past until the pressure reaches some predetermined point that is above line pressure. Seems to have defeated one of the features that makes the E-61 special.

If my above theory is correct (and this limiting device is not in the group) then you could remove the mushroom without water coming out- at least when the machine is cold and not subject to thermal expansion in the boiler.

The plumbed sound is different from eh reservoir sound, and interesting, but I do not think it is to worry, but I do not know Rocket machines. I think the preinfusion would help eliminate the doughnut extractions.

I wish my Vibiemme was that quiet.

 
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