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Another DB Quickmill
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Another DB...  
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,421
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Oct 11, 2013, 3:46am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

JaniceAnn Said:

What do you use to add Bicarbonate back?  Isn't baking soda a bicarbonate?  How much do you add per gallon?

Does RO water have any hardness?  I know that distilled water doesn't or so I think.

Thanks!

Posted October 10, 2013 link

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/ro-water-copper-corrosion

emil3m Said:

Hi all! I'm planning to buy the machine in dec/jan. I'm monitoring this thread, but not very closely because of the sheer volume. It seems like a lot of people are opening their machine, cutting things, adding things, fixing things, and modifying PID settings to a deeper extent than pressure and temp. Is this required with the Vetrano 2B? I like to pay top dollar for something that works out of the box. I enjoy keeping a journal where I keep track of how each bean variety ages and how to adjust the grind, dose, tamp pressure, brew time, pull time, and brew temp accordingly.

Posted October 10, 2013 link

I tinker with all my machines, but I don't think what you're seeing is unusual. Changing and tinkering with PID settings is all par for the course....it's why the PID's have settings people can tweak. As for minor mods, some people do it others don't.  I hate anything that restricts flow to the pump, so I like just the tube. If you remove the stand offs, then the flat opening in the tube can suck onto the side of the tank...hence the need to cut it. Takes 2 seconds with scissors, no biggie. In fact none of the things you are reading is difficult, major or time consuming and you might be "making a mountain out of a mole hill".  If you these things are, major, difficult and not for you, then don't buy this machine, but probably none of them are for you. All prosumer machines occasionally need work, they all can be tinkered with and frequently are.

You mentioned your journal for the beans....to me, that's something waay more than I would ever do, or need to do, it seems like real overkill, loads of work and a huge bind. In reality, you probably don't even think about it. I use the example to illustrate to you, that things might not be as difficult as they seem and you said yourself you don't read the thread very closely....perhaps if you did you would understand more of what's really going on?
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pShoe
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Oct 11, 2013, 6:23am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

I cut the water intake tube a couple days ago. I was thinking about cutting it so the tube had a "v" cut similar to what my Silvia's tube looked like, but settled on a pointed cut per Dave's instructions. I didn't notice a difference, but that doesn't mean the machine hasn't. The filter they placed on the end does look like it would restrict water flow quite a bit.

It still makes a louder sound when the pump first activates sometimes, so I would like to experiment with different water. Dave I read your water article. Thanks for doing the leg work on that front and making it easy to replicate. I'm in an apartment so setting up a RO system is not possible. Forgive my ignorance but, is distilled water the same or a close enough substitute as reverse osmosis water? I'd be using distilled water until I can set up a RO system. Would you mine filling us in on what specific set you are using to get your RO water? I've been researching an apartment friendly system, but they all seem to be rather large (which I could work with) and connect to a separate faucet (I can't cut extra holes into the counter top or sink).

Thanks.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Oct 11, 2013, 8:22am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

A question for everyone:

Does your hot water that comes out of the brew boiler smell different than the hot water from the hot water tap/steam boiler?

Mine does. I did the 10 or so flushes when I first bought the machine. I've used it probably more than a hundred times since then, so I think it should be all flushed out (I never did a boiler drain).

When I draw hot water from the brew group into a cup (to warm it) I smell a slight chemical/metal smell. Can't describe it, but it's there. When I draw hot water from the hot water tamp (hence the steam boiler), there is no detectable smell.

Should I be concerned? I don't really have an easy way to mount the V2B to drain the boilers, but I will if people think I should.
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Mort108
Senior Member
Mort108
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 21
Location: Saint Louis
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vetrano 2B, ROK
Grinder: Baratza Forte
Roaster: Local
Posted Fri Oct 11, 2013, 8:25am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

pShoe....I have RO water with an added mineral filter as the last stage, but I don't think that is the best way to go.  Like Dave, you can add back some minerals, but I have my DB plumbed and that just does not work.  I have been doing a lot of research and one of the water qualities that adding back seems to miss is the TDS, which is rather specific for coffee.  I had a long talk with a great guy at Mavea filters...a bit pricy upfront, but with the ability to 'dial-in' your water, and a small 10" case it is perfert for an apartment.  When I ordered my DB from CCS I had the Calcite filter and housing ordered...to add after the final RO stage, and in addition to the existing mineral filter...I cancelled at the last minute and now I think I will go with the Mavea Purity C system.  Mavea told me that if you use 1 gallon or less of water a week, go with the 50, otherwise the 150....in the end, water is perhaps the most important element and one that you can have some control over.  Maybe it is akin to the notion of buying a good grinder and then an espresso machine.  I would love to hear anybody's ideas on this...

JaniceAnn Said:

What do you use to add Bicarbonate back?  Isn't baking soda a bicarbonate?  How much do you add per gallon?

Does RO water have any hardness?  I know that distilled water doesn't or so I think.


JaniceAnn...1.5 hardness is way to low...4 is ideal...
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Oct 11, 2013, 2:33pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Mort108 Said:

pShoe....I have RO water with an added mineral filter as the last stage, but I don't think that is the best way to go.  Like Dave, you can add back some minerals, but I have my DB plumbed and that just does not work.  I have been doing a lot of research and one of the water qualities that adding back seems to miss is the TDS, which is rather specific for coffee.  I had a long talk with a great guy at Mavea filters...a bit pricy upfront, but with the ability to 'dial-in' your water, and a small 10" case it is perfert for an apartment.  When I ordered my DB from CCS I had the Calcite filter and housing ordered...to add after the final RO stage, and in addition to the existing mineral filter...I cancelled at the last minute and now I think I will go with the Mavea Purity C system.  Mavea told me that if you use 1 gallon or less of water a week, go with the 50, otherwise the 150....in the end, water is perhaps the most important element and one that you can have some control over.  Maybe it is akin to the notion of buying a good grinder and then an espresso machine.  I would love to hear anybody's ideas on this...

JaniceAnn Said:

What do you use to add Bicarbonate back?  Isn't baking soda a bicarbonate?  How much do you add per gallon?

Does RO water have any hardness?  I know that distilled water doesn't or so I think.


JaniceAnn...1.5 hardness is way to low...4 is ideal...

Posted October 11, 2013 link

I thought that hardness was supposed to be no higher than 3 grains?  Am I mistaken about this?
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Oct 11, 2013, 2:48pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

I'm posing my question again because of the update below: does anyone else have a metallic smell in their water when it's drawn from the brew group (no portafilter in place, no coffee)?

I just emptied my brew boiler (a pain in the behind by the way because the tap doesn't line up with the hole at the bottom of the plate. I didn't remove the entire bottom plate, just the steel plate with a lot of holes in it. The tap for the steam boiler lines up perfectly but the brew boiler tap is off towards the side of the machine. When I had my machine at a 45 degree angle on its side and opened up the brew group drain it splashed mostly out and down into the pan I had waiting but since it wasn't lined up over the exit hole some water splashed on the metal undercarriage and exited from other holes in bottom of the machine. I've seen other images where the two taps line up perfectly over the round hole that is uncovered when you remove the plate with the little holes in it, mine does *not* line up.

Anyway I fully drained the brew boiler, refilled with fresh Crystal Geyser water, and there is still a chemical smell from the water. Having just walked into a hardware store to buy a 4" adjustable wrench to take off the bottom panel, the smell reminds me of the smell in a hardware store.

Should I be worried? I sent an email to Mary at CCS this morning but haven't heard back. I'll give them until early next week but I'm hoping someone here at CG (DavecUK?) will have some input.

As I mentioned in my previous post, hot water drawn from the steam boiler has no smell (or if it does, it's way less detectable). The brew boiler hot water smell is easily detectable, and yes I did clean the group and basket so it's really the smell of the water. It doesn't smell like coffee grind anyway it smells like  something metallic.
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Fri Oct 11, 2013, 3:34pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

JaniceAnn Said:

I thought that hardness was supposed to be no higher than 3 grains?  Am I mistaken about this?

Posted October 11, 2013 link

it isnt...
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pShoe
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Oct 12, 2013, 6:51am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Mort108 Said:

pShoe....I have RO water with an added mineral filter as the last stage, but I don't think that is the best way to go.  Like Dave, you can add back some minerals, but I have my DB plumbed and that just does not work.  I have been doing a lot of research and one of the water qualities that adding back seems to miss is the TDS, which is rather specific for coffee.  I had a long talk with a great guy at Mavea filters...a bit pricy upfront, but with the ability to 'dial-in' your water, and a small 10" case it is perfert for an apartment.  When I ordered my DB from CCS I had the Calcite filter and housing ordered...to add after the final RO stage, and in addition to the existing mineral filter...I cancelled at the last minute and now I think I will go with the Mavea Purity C system.  Mavea told me that if you use 1 gallon or less of water a week, go with the 50, otherwise the 150....in the end, water is perhaps the most important element and one that you can have some control over.  Maybe it is akin to the notion of buying a good grinder and then an espresso machine.  I would love to hear anybody's ideas on this...

Posted October 11, 2013 link

Look like a great system. Size wise it is way better than the 5 stage and tank systems I was looking at. My plan is to build a frame out of 2X4 under my sink that the system would mount too and that I would also mount a faucet too. Could this system be connected to a faucet easily? At $69 per replacement filter using 1 gallon a week makes it slightly more than I can buy a gallon of distilled water at the store. I'm trying to decide if the extra cost is worth the convince. To gauge my actual water usage I'm going to start buying water at the store and decide what will be best considering cost and convince. Publix Purified Water is treated with Carbon Filtration, Ultraviolet Light, Micron Filtration, Reverse Osmisis, and Ozone. I'll get that and add 0.12g of baking powder per liter of water. Thanks for the head up about Mavea.

Once the baking powder is dissolved into the water does is stay dissolved? I'm apprehensive about putting powder into the water and having it block a water way.
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,153
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sat Oct 12, 2013, 7:55am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

I am liking the Mavea filter but if Mavea said the 50 is only good for a gallon a week I am a bit confused. With 0 by pass and 10g of hardness it says the filter is good for 158 gallons per year, a gallon a week is 52 gallons per year. WH t about the other 106 gallons?

It is a very good idea when setting up any filter system to have a bleeder to flush water from sitting filters or replacement filters, flushing through the espresso machine is not a good idea.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,421
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Oct 12, 2013, 10:43am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

pShoe Said:

Once the baking powder is dissolved into the water does is stay dissolved? I'm apprehensive about putting powder into the water and having it block a water way.

Posted October 12, 2013 link

It does stay dissolved....make sure though it's bicarbonate of soda, Baking powder might the the one with a Bicarb and Cream of Tartar dry mix, which activates with flour when water is added to produce carbon dioxide for the rise. You don't want to use Baking Powder.

I've been using sodium bicarb+ro water for 6 years now.....never a problem.
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