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I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > I'm I ready for...  
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pShoe
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Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 2:09pm
Subject: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

The maintenance crew at my apartment building came by today. They replaced the 15 amp circuit with a 20 amp for the outlet the machine is plugged into. They also replaced the outlet with a 20 amp one. He mentioned that if it draws to much power the wires could get hot, but said it shouldn't be an issue because the wires were not old or too narrow.

Nevertheless, I'd like to get any tips for what to look for while running in 20 amp mode just to make sure everything is going fine. There are a few other house lights that are on the same circuit that I'll try to keep off for the most part while using the machine, especially when I has both boilers on.

In addition to any suggestion I have a couple specific questions.

Should I touch the plastic part of the outlet from time to time to see if it is hot to the touch?

Should I unscrew the plug and check the gauge of the wire to ensure they are sufficient?

Thanks.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,734
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 2:23pm
Subject: Re: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

You should have 12 gauge wire for a 20 amp circuit. If it is 14, gauge, it is too small and can cause a fire.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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pShoe
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Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 2:27pm
Subject: Re: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

Thanks. I'll check it out. It should be listed on the covering of the wire, right? It kinda sucks that both boilers have to be on to run in 20 amp mode. For the most part I'll be running it in 15 amp. My main reason for doing this is curiosity and having the option. I want to see if there s a big difference in steaming power.
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CarloM
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Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 2:42pm
Subject: Re: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

pShoe Said:

Thanks. I'll check it out. It should be listed on the covering of the wire, right? It kinda sucks that both boilers have to be on to run in 20 amp mode. For the most part I'll be running it in 15 amp. My main reason for doing this is curiosity and having the option. I want to see if there s a big difference in steaming power.

Posted October 4, 2013 link

This is an incorrect part of the CCS manual. My machine was incorrectly left at 20A, despite me ordering the 15A and they shipped the 15A cord. I noticed that both boilers were going on, which prompted me to check the boiler setting which was at 6 (both boilers) rather than 4 (brew boiler priority).

I had inadvertently ran at 20A mode for about a week or so before switching it (didn't have a fire thank goodness!) but I can confirm that I had on at least two occasions only turned on the brew boiler while I was in 20A mode only to brew a shot. So you don't have to have both going at the same time if all you want to do is brew an espresso with no need to steam milk.

Good luck!
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Woody
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Woody
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Hood River, OR
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Vivaldi I
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Vac Pot: Hoover
Drip: yuck
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 2:46pm
Subject: Re: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

Hi Paul-  By your reply, I wasn't sure if you understood the difference in modes.  In 15A mode, the group heater and the steam boiler will not heat at the same time.  If both are calling for heat, the group heats up and the steam boiler waits until the group element shuts off.  In 20A mode both can heat at the same time.  I run mine in 15A, no problems with steam boiler not being hot enough.

Jon
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pShoe
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Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 2:48pm
Subject: Re: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

Thanks Carlo, that is good to know.

I'm starting to think they're a few incorrect parts of the manual. That goes with the territory of order a newer machine I guess.

The manual states that, "The VETRANO 2B uses an E61 8.5mm gasket." While the site and I think even the videos says its a 8mm. I'm not sure which is right, but I'm leaning toward it being the 8mm one.
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pShoe
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Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 2:53pm
Subject: Re: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

Woody Said:

Hi Paul-  By your reply, I wasn't sure if you understood the difference in modes.  In 15A mode, the group heater and the steam boiler will not heat at the same time.  If both are calling for heat, the group heats up and the steam boiler waits until the group element shuts off.  In 20A mode both can heat at the same time.  I run mine in 15A, no problems with steam boiler not being hot enough.

Jon

Posted October 4, 2013 link

I understand it. I don't see any limits in steam power on 15amp mode either. In fact, it is a little fast fore me at my current steaming skill level. I'm use to the much slower Silvia. Like I said it is just my inquisitive nature. I really don't think I'll see a difference, or at least won't be steaming or pulling enough shots to the point where the difference would make its self know, but I want to check it out.

I would like to start pulling my shot at the same time I steam too. Not sure if it would be a noticeable difference in that case either.
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Woody
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Woody
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Hood River, OR
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Vivaldi I
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Vac Pot: Hoover
Drip: yuck
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 2:59pm
Subject: Re: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

I don't notice any difference, as long as both are fully heated.  In fact, my group boiler usually doesn't turn on while I'm pulling a shot.

Jon
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 679
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 3:04pm
Subject: Re: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

pShoe Said:

The maintenance crew at my apartment building came by today. They replaced the 15 amp circuit with a 20 amp for the outlet the machine is plugged into. They also replaced the outlet with a 20 amp one. He mentioned that if it draws to much power the wires could get hot, but said it shouldn't be an issue because the wires were not old or too narrow.

Nevertheless, I'd like to get any tips for what to look for while running in 20 amp mode just to make sure everything is going fine. There are a few other house lights that are on the same circuit that I'll try to keep off for the most part while using the machine, especially when I has both boilers on.

In addition to any suggestion I have a couple specific questions.

Should I touch the plastic part of the outlet from time to time to see if it is hot to the touch?

Should I unscrew the plug and check the gauge of the wire to ensure they are sufficient?

Thanks.

Posted October 4, 2013 link

I don't want to start something here, but your maintenance guys just violated the electrical code and I am surprised because the apartment complex would be liable if there was a loss of life or property. If you want to get technical about it, a 20 amp plug is supposed to be fed by a 20 amp breaker that doesn't feed any other plugs or lights.

Now that the technical jargon is out of the way, here is what it will take for you to use the 20 amp plug safely:
1) The wire needs to be 12 gauge or more all the way from the breaker to the plug.
2) The breaker needs to be 20 amp (GCFI would be even better and technically required in the kitchen by current codes if the plug itself doesn't have a GCFI ).
3) No other lights are plugs are supposed to be on the same circuit. Since we already know you have a less than code installation, make sure you don't load the circuit down from other plugs are lamps.

With that said, we all know that everyone seems to be using their V2B on a circuit that is not technically intended to be used for such a high wattage appliance. If you going to do this, you will need to except the responsibility to be sure the circuit doesn't become over loaded and create a hazard. When your are running at this wattage things like a bad connection can heat up very fast and very hot.  Take the responsibility seriously.
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pShoe
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Oct 4, 2013, 3:19pm
Subject: Re: I'm I ready for 20amp V2B?
 

DeanOK Said:

I don't want to start something here, but your maintenance guys just violated the electrical code and I am surprised because the apartment complex would be liable if there was a loss of life or property. If you want to get technical about it, a 20 amp plug is supposed to be fed by a 20 amp breaker that doesn't feed any other plugs or lights.

Now that the technical jargon is out of the way, here is what it will take for you to use the 20 amp plug safely:
1) The wire needs to be 12 gauge or more all the way from the breaker to the plug.
2) The breaker needs to be 20 amp (GCFI would be even better and technically required in the kitchen by current codes if the plug itself doesn't have a GCFI ).
3) No other lights are plugs are supposed to be on the same circuit. Since we already know you have a less than code installation, make sure you don't load the circuit down from other plugs are lamps.

With that said, we all know that everyone seems to be using their V2B on a circuit that is not technically intended to be used for such a high wattage appliance. If you going to do this, you will need to except the responsibility to be sure the circuit doesn't become over loaded and create a hazard. When your are running at this wattage things like a bad connection can heat up very fast and very hot.  Take the responsibility seriously.

Posted October 4, 2013 link

Thank you. This was the type of response I was looking for, but at the same time hoping not to get. I will be very responsible. The fact is, I will very likely run it in 15 amp mode because I don't use the machine in a way that requires more power.

Other then the lights, I have my kettle and grinder on the same plug. The grinder is only used for a short time, and the kettle is only used when the brew boiler is the only boiler I am using (to preheat the cup). The kettle is not used while the steam boiler is on. Anyway, has the upgrade breaker and plug in anyway benefited the machine while running in 15 amp mode?

This might be a stupid question but, can I have the machine plugged in with the 20 amp plug while running it in 15 amp mode without any problems?
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