Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
HX/E-61 Temperature Control
Find the Right Machine...
Package deals on the best machines from Izzo, Quick Mill, Rocket, La Marzocco & more.
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > HX/E-61...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 4 of 4 first page previous page
Author Messages
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 195
Location: Bakersfield
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Tea
Grinder: Pasquini, Spong
Roaster: Hot Top, Fresh Roast +
Posted Thu Feb 17, 2005, 9:21pm
Subject: Re: HX/E-61 Temperature Control

djmcmath Said:

Some quick math shows that, for 1/8" copper tubing, 24.5ft would be required to produce a 56ml internal volume.  Some more quick math estimations tells me that two tight spirals, about 5 inches across, back to back, would do the job.  24ft of heat rope at, say, 4W/ft only gives me 100W, which may or may not be sufficient... Let me see what I can find in heat rope...


Posted February 17, 2005 link

100 W would give a temperature rise on the order of 1/3 degree per second. That sounds responsive, but controllable.

back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Senior Member

Joined: 8 May 2004
Posts: 138
Location: Seattle, WA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Espreso
Grinder: Solis Maestro Plus
Posted Thu Feb 17, 2005, 11:25pm
Subject: Re: HX/E-61 Temperature Control

Or, given 30 seconds between shots, that ought to be enough to gain 10 degrees (though I bet it wouldn't be stable at 10.00 above wherever it started...).  Optimally, I should only need to change about 2C, which ought to be easy, then.  :)  Whee!

This weekend is already shot.  The first time I'll have even a first chance to actually pull apart the machine, take measurements, etc. will be about Monday.  (sigh)  I'll report back when I have something.

back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 329
Location: Americas
Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Jul 18, 2013, 6:50pm
Subject: Re: HX/E-61 Temperature Control

Old topic, but I think that it's correct.  Even a manually adjusted mixing valve, mixing together ~70F water from the tank and 250F water from the boiler should result in a steady 200F with fewer variables to cause problems than the typical HX machine&.  And you could get some control over temperature profile.

One issue I see it that the boiler would be exposed to the full 9 bars of brew pressure instead of just the 1 bar that it currently sees.  I don't think I want to assume that mine will stand up to this.

& - as I see it, a HX machine has initial HX temp, flush time/volume, delay to start of brew, flow rate, tank water temperature and ambient air temps.  All of these have to be quite consistent to get the right temp out of a HX machine.  Even boiler temp changes with pstat hysteresis and barometric pressure.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Senior Member

Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2
Location: Hamilton, MA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Sep 29, 2013, 8:06am
Subject: Re: HX/E-61 Temperature Control

I'm new to this myself, but I had a similar thought. A precise mixing valve seems to me to be a nice way to handle this. Keep the boiler at steam temp and run the hot & cold to a microprocessor controlled mixing valve. Could also add a diverter after the mixer to flow some through the grouphead to keep it at temp then divert to the showerhead when given the go signal.

The thing that strikes me about this arrangement is the temp profile. We know that temp control is important for a good shot. But what if a dynamic temp profile is better? What if some grinds like a 'ramp' in temp to extract the best organics? What if another grind likes to be hit at 198 and 205 but doesn't like 202? A mixing valve allows this possibility. Could use lots of feedback loops with extraction temp, grouphead temp, ambient temp, etc. along with heuristics so actual extraction temp profile closely matches desired one.

Add bluetooth or wifi, network in your grinder, and you can share grind settings & temp profiles with your friends.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,265
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sun Sep 29, 2013, 9:10am
Subject: Re: HX/E-61 Temperature Control

I tried to just skim but to understand what the thoughts were, that was out.
There is nothing new about what was discussed here when it was posted and nothing new now.  The OP is a good candidate for a DB machine. There is no need to jump through these hoops to redesign a machine into what has been made.

A HX machine is pretty darn consistent after the cooling flush sequence but they want to avoid a flush which can not be done, all machines require a cleaning flush an:-) d while HX require a cooling flush, most DB require a warming flush.

Honestly a deg or two will not make a difference in taste that nearly anyone will taste, let alone a half deg. Tech has caused the problem of if we can see a difference in numbers, it matters when for nearly everyone, it does not. If you want a PID controlled DB, thats fine, buy one!

There is not a pressing need to go through all this trouble,.... Unless you need a project to work on and then, go for it but remember, the solution to this "problem" has already been found . to alter the HX as discussed above only turns it into a SBDU with PID. :-)

In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
showing page 4 of 4 first page previous page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > HX/E-61...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Great Espresso at Home
Curated selection of the best machines from La Spaziale, Izzo, Quick Mill, La Marzocco & more.
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2015 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.409744024277)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+