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4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > 4 hole tip on...  
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 2:09pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

Additionally, here is the Rocket branded pitcher compared to my old pitcher. Not the larger bottom part which doesn't taper. Hopefully between this and the new 4-hole QM/SCG tip, I'll be able to get a better roll. The steel is much more high quality, thicker, and better polished than my old pitcher, but at roughly 4X the price it should be (I think I paid about $12 for my old pitcher and $49.95 for the Rocket).

CarloM: photo-3.jpg
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 620
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 2:21pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

CarloM Said:

Additionally, here is the Rocket branded pitcher compared to my old pitcher. Not the larger bottom part which doesn't taper. Hopefully between this and the new 4-hole QM/SCG tip, I'll be able to get a better roll. The steel is much more high quality, thicker, and better polished than my old pitcher, but at roughly 4X the price it should be (I think I paid about $12 for my old pitcher and $49.95 for the Rocket).

Posted September 28, 2013 link

I do believe the pitcher on the left is specifically made for cappuccino steaming... more froth, and many have no spout... so latte art would be a tad difficult with many of them.

I think that it is important to use a correct size pitcher for the amount of milk you are steaming. If the pitcher is too big, you may not be able to steam properly because you don't have a thick enough layer of milk in the bottom and vice-versa for too small.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 2:32pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

Hi Dean,

When I was looking at videos of latte art pouring online (from pro baristas) more than a few of them were using that exact pitcher. And I think my old pitcher was too small for the 8oz of milk I use per latte, so having the new one (16 total oz) I think will make it easier. Here's hoping!
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 3:25pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

SUCCESS!

Well...partially anyway. My latte art technique was lacking, I slowed up too early and thus ruined the art, but I am still counting this as a success because for the first time, I got latte-art microfoam that is exactly the same as what I get at Intelligentsia. I'd gotten decent microfoam before but the bubbles weren't truly "micro" in the sense that's needed for great art. For the first time, I achieved that foam.

The bad news? I don't know which factor got me to achieve it. I used the new 4-hole QM/SCG tip and the new Rocket pitcher simultaneously. I got the roll very easily, though with the narrower holes from the tip the steaming took a little longer (maybe 30-35 seconds for 8 oz instead of 20-25 seconds with the CCS tip). But it was more "forgiving" of my technique, even when I thought I let in just a little too much air, because it was steaming longer it still incorporated the air into microbubbles.

I'm going to guess that 75% of it was the new tip. The angle of steam ejection is different, and perhaps the smaller hole size makes for a more controlled steaming process. Maybe the remaining 25% was having more room in the bottom half of the pitcher to achieve the roll.

Now all that's left for me is to perfect my pouring technique, as that's clearly the only part that is lacking now.
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pShoe
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 5:00pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

I'm kinda disappointed that CCS did not include a QM tip with the QM machine. It's common sense that an actual QM tip would work better than the generic tip being sold with the machine. I have to believe that with their relationship, sourcing the tip would not be hard for CCS.

I have steam coming from all holes, but my like others the milk is not swirling around no matter what I do. For those that had a blocked tip. Did no steam at all from from some of the holes?

edit: I just cut the tube back and there is a noticeable improvement. I also raised the temp of the steam boiler a couple degrees.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 5:53pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

Pshoe: this is just my best guess, I have no facts to back this up:

Based on what CCS has said, they ordered the V2B with the four hole tip. QM messed up and shipped with the 2-hole tip. I'm going to guess that if they did not mess up, it would have come with the tip I just bought from SCG, since it's the official QM 4-hole tip.

However QM was closed during the August period when the initial batch arrived to CCS with the 2-hole tip. So CCS, in a good-faith effort to meet customer demand for the 4-hole tip, shipped their more generic one which fit the wand, so that customers didn't have to wait for QM to reopen in September and then ship out from Italy to NYC the 4-hole tip, then from NYC to you (which in my case would have taken weeks).

My guess is that future V2Bs from CCS, assuming they ship with the correct 4-hole tip direct from QM, will look like the one I bought from SCG and not the one that CCS shipped to initial customers.

Regarding steaming with the 4-hole CCS tip vs. the 4-hole QM tip: I was the first to trim my tube back to get even four-hole distribution on the CCS tip. I did notice an improvement. I did not raise my boiler temp. I was getting microfoam - or more evenly distributed foam throughout the milk - but I wasn't getting the true microfoam. The super-tiny bubbles that make nice latte art possible because it's almost like a suspension of bubbles within the liquid milk. My theory is that with the larger holes in the CCS tip, the steam was coming out too fast (and possibly at a suboptimal angle). With the narrower-holed QM tip, I've noticed the steam is not shooting out as powerfully, and the angles are different, and coupled with the new Rocket pitcher, I was able to get a roll in a way I've never been able to with the CCS tip + my old pitcher. It's too bad I only drink twice a day and am done today, but I look forward to tomorrow's latte to see if I can do better with the pour. If I can get good art I'll take and post a picture here. Even if I can't make good art (due to my lackluster pouring skill) but if I can capture the microfoam on my camera phone, I'll post it.
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pShoe
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Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 6:19pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

Carlo, cutting back the tube did not have any adverse effect on the QM tip? Next time I have some things to order from SCG I'll likely order one.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 6:35pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

pShoe Said:

Carlo, cutting back the tube did not have any adverse effect on the QM tip? Next time I have some things to order from SCG I'll likely order one.

Posted September 28, 2013 link

Obviously I can't say definitively no, since I got my 4-hole QM tip *after* I'd already cut about 1/4" off the teflon tube, but all I can say is I don't notice any adverse effect. In fact the QM 4-hole works just like the 2-hole as I remember it (I used it for 2 weeks before the CCS tip got here), only in four directions. That was always my problem with the 2-hole tip. I could get the roll in some directions/quadrants but not the uniform roll in all parts of the milk. I had hoped the 4-hole tip would fix it and was surprised to see the size difference of the tip that CCS sent. Then researching further I realized CCS sent their OEM 4-hole tip for all no-burn steam arms regardless of vendor. That prompted me to seek out the 4-hole QM tip which I didn't find on CCS but did on SCG.

If the first use is any indication, I'm now completely content with the QM 4-hole tip from SCG. I would have gotten perfect latte art...if I could pour it! :) The microfoam was perfect. Felt the same when I drank it (and looked the same as I poured it) as it does in Intelligentsia, Luxxe, Tomo, Profeta...all the local places that create crazy-good latte art. I think the slower steaming power actually gives you more time to incorporate the tiny bubbles into all of the milk. Not that it's a slow steamer, it's just slower than the CCS tip. As I said, probably went from 20-25 seconds to 30-35 seconds. I'll give up those 10 seconds every time to get the result I just got this afternoon.
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pShoe
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 6:47pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

Thanks. Hopefully CCS will have some available for sale before my next order at SCG. In that case I'd order a precision shower screen too. Until then I'll make due with the OEM one.

On a positive note, I can tell the potential is there. It took me a long time to get anything even decent out of the Silvia, and even then the results were hit or miss. I'm getting consistently better results with the 2B every time. Sometimes I'm still in the "Silvia Routine" where I don't have the mike ready to go while pulling the shot.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 6:59pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

I had my Silvia for 18 months. I followed every "golden rule" and was not afraid to experiment. My best Silvia shots are equal to my decent V2B shots, and that's not an overstatement. The only bad shots I make on the V2B are when I change beans and have to sink a shot or two to dial it in. Even if the grind isn't perfect but is close, the V2B is so forgiving that even if the shot runs a little fast (say 15-20 seconds) it's still a very drinkable shot, and then I turn my Mazzer Mini E one notch tighter and it's perfect the next time. When I get good-to-great shots on my V2B I rival the pro coffee houses. I'd say I get 20% decent shots (usually after a bean change, or if the beans have aged enough where I need to grind slightly finer), 60% good-to-very-good shots, 20% great shots. I'm not sure I've had a god shot yet, just because I'm not sure I'm qualified to be to identify one.

And while I got quite good at steaming on the Silvia, I could get the swirl almost all the time, the fact that it was a powerful single-hole that dispensed pretty wet steam (and I always bled it prior to steaming, wetter steam is just a fact of life with an SBDU like the Silvia) kept me from achieving the elusive true microfoam. I could get foam that would do latte art, but not with the mouth-feel that true microbubbles gives you. Today's first steam with the 4-hole QM tip is the first time I've had pro barista level microfoam.
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