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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Help designing...  
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whitehawk
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Bellingham, WA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Giotto Classic, NS Appia
Grinder: Baratza Forte
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Sep 8, 2013, 9:41pm
Subject: Help designing filter system
 

So I've just gone through opening up my walls and running a new circuit, drain line and water line so I can plumb in my espresso machine.  Its been fun, is now just about time to put in cabinets (will be 1/2 height cabinets over the espresso machine!) and so I'm beginning to think about my filter system.  I'm thinking of going with something along the lines of the kit that Chris Coffee sells with a few additions.  I'm going to have it running to my Appia 1 group, and I want to have a second line so I can work with another machine should I need to.  I also want a spot after the filters so I can easily run through the 5 gallons or so after getting a new carbon filter.  And I would like to have it set up so that it will be easy to descale (my understanding of this is very limited with plumbed in machines.

So far in my mind I have it running like this:

Shut off Valve --> JG tubing --> Softener --> Carbon Filter --> Tee with Shut-off --> Pressure Regulator --> Pressure Gauge --> One-way valve --> Tee with 2 shut offs, one running to the Appia, the 2nd awaiting use with another machine.

Is anything out of order here - and what do I need to do so I can descale?  a 3rd tank between the softener and carbon that I can put citric acid into when needed?

 
-Josh
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,947
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sun Sep 8, 2013, 10:39pm
Subject: Re: design ideal filter system
 

There are several way to do any job. It would be best but not mandatory to consult with someone who provides filters where you live. They know your water and the needed equipment to get the results you wish.

A word on the drain line, make sure it has lots of slope, you will get grounds mixed in with the drain water. If the slope is not enough, you will clog the line over time. My machine is about5inches above the counter and the drain runs about 3 feet until it drops straight down into a catch bottle. I need to clean the line out about once a year. The hole in the tube is 5/8 inch. A clean out would be a good idea too.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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whitehawk
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Bellingham, WA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Giotto Classic, NS Appia
Grinder: Baratza Forte
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 7:17am
Subject: Re: Help designing filter system
 

Thank you Wayne.  I am on a well and know next to nothing about my water, I was going to get some strips to test for hardness - will that be enough?  

I put in about 2" slope per foot of run, so I'm hopeful that will work out well.  I did include a cleanout as well.

As far as descaling - do most people just put in a shut off after the filters, and feed from a jug off a tee in the line?  Or is there a way to get it to the machine with line pressure?

 
-Josh
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frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,437
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 7:49am
Subject: Re: Help designing filter system
 

Check my website as I documented the planning and installation of the CC system.
 http://www.frcndigital.com/coffee/water1.html
 http://www.frcndigital.com/coffee/water2.html

I highly recommend the JG tubing as it is flexible and easy to work with.

The Aquarium Pharmaceuticals GH+KH test kit is the one to get.

 
Visit My Website
www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,947
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 8:02am
Subject: Re: Help designing filter system
 

2 inches a foot sounds like enough but I am not a plumber and never said I was LOL:-)
A clean out and that slope should be enough in my off the cuff guess.

Do a Google search for the
Insanely long water FAQ.
It has much more info than anyone would ever want the know!

Test strips are not the same as an analysis but it may be close enough.

Most built in systems have a charcoal filter, a sediment filter and if needed a water softener.

To descale, you need a way to input the cleaning solution to the machine. When plumbed in and no internal tank in the machine, that means you need to disconnect the machine from the water supply and connect the cleaner.  Once the cleaner is in the machine, let it set for a while then flush with clean water until the solution is out and only clear water remains.

However you need to connect to get this done is up to you.

Keep asking questions, it really isn't complicated, mostly basic stuff :-)

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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whitehawk
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Bellingham, WA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Giotto Classic, NS Appia
Grinder: Baratza Forte
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 9:43am
Subject: Re: Help designing filter system
 

Alright Wayne, I guess you're not liable if something goes wrong =)  My understanding was that 1" drop per foot is what is required, so by doubling it I think I should be good.  I tried reading through that water FAQ before, I think it was just a little bit more than I could absorb haha.  It would probably be time well spent for me to attempt it again!

Randy - I've read through your site in its entirety and I love it - thank you for putting that together!  I've tried to do my research, and I know that many rotary pumps can pull without difficulty from jugs, but I do not know if the pump in my appia is capable of doing so (I would assume it can, but that is after all just an assumption).  What I'm trying to figure out is the easiest / best way to get the citric acid into the system under line pressure - unless someone knows that my pump won't cavitate when pulling from a jug.

edit:  I will grab that test kit, thank you!

 
-Josh
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