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Another DB Quickmill
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Another DB...  
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 621
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 4:33am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

The offset or E1 value on the PID should be set to 11C  (19 or 20F)....the value you are quoting is not correct for the offset value E1. This parameter allows for the change in temperature of brew water on it's journey from boiler to coffee puck. The boiler water is kept at a higher temperature e.g. 104C, for a brew temperature at the puck of 93C.  Rather than 104C appearing on the display, it means the brew temperature of 34C (104 offset by 11C), can be displayed instead, to avoid the need or you to mentally deduct 11C each time you look at the display.

I think Rocket R58 supplied a conversion chart for their owners to use as their PID had no offset function...

Posted August 28, 2013 link

Dave: Are you saying that if I want a brew temp of 201F that I need to run the brew boiler at 220 or 221F by entering 20 or 21 for the value of E1? I would never have dreamed that the offset would be that high.

This is the table I am talking about:

DeanOK: Vetrano_2B_PID_Table.GIF
(Click for larger image)
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Zevi
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 7:06am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DeanOK Said:

This is the table I am talking about:...

Posted August 28, 2013 link

Dave, I'm looking at that table, and my understanding is that either (1) the PID does NOT have separate parameters for brew and steam boiler, or (2) the parameters set for the steam boiler are not adjustable.

Am I missing something?
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,331
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 8:33am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

F01 = C
F02 = 6 (both boilers operational) or 3 is brew boiler off and I can't remember what alternate boiler operation is I think it's 4).
P1 = 1.7 (perhaps 1.8-2.0 for the use version in alternate boiler operation)
I1 = 0.04
D1 = 7.5
B1 = 10

P2 = 3.0
I2 = 0.00
D2 = 5.0
B2 = 5.0
T1 = 94
T2 = 124
E1 = 11
E2 = 0

All parameters in proper English money, none of yer old Fahrenheit rubbish ;-)

The above is for the UK machines PID, I am pretty sure you guys have the same PID. As for the offset of 10/11C for E61 groups...that's quite normal (and depends on a few factors as to whether it's 10 or 11)).
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 8:57am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

F01 = C
F02 = 6 (both boilers operational) or 3 is brew boiler off and I can't remember what alternate boiler operation is I think it's 4).
P1 = 1.7 (perhaps 1.8-2.0 for the use version in alternate boiler operation)
I1 = 0.04
D1 = 7.5
B1 = 10

P2 = 3.0
I2 = 0.00
D2 = 5.0
B2 = 5.0
T1 = 94
T2 = 124
E1 = 11
E2 = 0

All parameters in proper English money, none of yer old Fahrenheit rubbish ;-)

The above is for the UK machines PID, I am pretty sure you guys have the same PID. As for the offset of 10/11C for E61 groups...that's quite normal (and depends on a few factors as to whether it's 10 or 11)).

Posted August 28, 2013 link

If the table shown above from the 2B manual is correct then we aren't getting the newer PID.  It doesn't show the P2, I2, D2, and B2 that is in the UK version.

I thought we were going to get the same one?

Also the offset shown for the brew boiler on the table is 27 degrees and Dave says this is not correct.

I am getting a bit confused.  Not a rare occurrence.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 9:31am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Received my shipping notice (though UPS hasn't picked it up yet) so I expect mid next week for mine. It does seem like we either got the older version PID, or that certain firmware has been blocked from us. Because Dave's variables and options are greater than what appears in CCS's document. And yes, that offset does seem high. CCS says they measured it using a SCACE device, so I'll go forward in good faith and trust them.

Remember that our machines are slightly different than the one Dave received. Different voltages. Perhaps even different wattages in the heating elements. So all of his settings may not translate to ours in the U.S. I'm just going to see how it performs when it gets here next week before hitting the panic switch.

Finally, the documentation from CCS will likely be revised as time goes on. They probably put it together in time for this first shipment, but some functions may be missing from it and added later, i.e. how to go from 15A to 20A operation, which is in most of their other machines' documentation (at least the ones that can easily be switched from 15A to 20A).
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Mort108
Senior Member
Mort108
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 21
Location: Saint Louis
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vetrano 2B, ROK
Grinder: Baratza Forte
Roaster: Local
Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 12:57pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Turns out that because of a pallet mistake, CCS has only 48 total units....and I think 12 unsold....
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 621
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 4:21pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

JaniceAnn Said:

If the table shown above from the 2B manual is correct then we aren't getting the newer PID.  It doesn't show the P2, I2, D2, and B2 that is in the UK version.

I thought we were going to get the same one?

Also the offset shown for the brew boiler on the table is 27 degrees and Dave says this is not correct.

I am getting a bit confused.  Not a rare occurrence.

Posted August 28, 2013 link

Don't panic. Worst case it the printed manual is wrong... we will know the best value soon enough and you can easily change it.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 621
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Aug 29, 2013, 1:55pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Anyone got their V2B machine yet? How are they handling the shipping?
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Thu Aug 29, 2013, 3:17pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DeanOK Said:

Anyone got their V2B machine yet? How are they handling the shipping?

Posted August 29, 2013 link

I'd be curious to hear as well how they're holding up while in transit. I know I'm holding my breath because mine has to travel nearly three thousand miles and will undoubtedly stop almost every day between now and next Thursday when it's scheduled to arrive. I don't know UPS's procedure when they scan as something "arrives" and then "departs" a location. Does it stay on the truck [my preference]? Does it come out and then have to be loaded in [my fear is that this is the case]. Which means mine will be loaded and unloaded up to seven times, which just acts as a multiplier for the number of times it could be damaged as it makes its way cross country.
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Thu Aug 29, 2013, 3:25pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DeanOK Said:

Anyone got their V2B machine yet? How are they handling the shipping?

Posted August 29, 2013 link

I got mine today and except for one little scratch on the right side I don't see any problems.  I think the scratch may have been there from the factory or maybe from the bench test but I don't
think it happened in shipping.

I want to let everyone know that I couldn't get into the advanced programing mode but my husband did and showed me how.  

The machine does have the P!, I1, D1, B1 and also the P2, I2, D2, B2, so we do have the new double loop PID.

I have been doing the flushes and so far, so good.

Anyone know how to polish a scratch out of stainless steel?  It is just a small scratch and not a problem but if it can be done easily without marring the surrounding surface, I would do it.
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