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Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Experts: Will I...  
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,150
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 9:25am
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

DeanOK Said:

The more I think about it, the more I think 45 seconds is a good number for 6 oz on a home machine. I realize in a commercial situation they probably steam a lot more than 6 oz at a time.... but I almost always steam 6 oz of milk. It would be nice if they had a selection of tips that would allow you to steam up to 12oz  or 18 oz of milk and still have a tip that would slow down production on 6 oz of milk.  If I had to steam in 15 or 20 seconds that would be way too fast for me.

Posted August 20, 2013 link

Well my Oscar did 6oz in 25-30 sec.

So with a dual boiler you have control over the steam boiler, hotter it is the more pressure it will have. For 4-6oz of milk I have the boiler at 255f and for my wife's 6-8oz I pump it to 260f.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 9:43am
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

After modding I can steam 3-4 oz in 10 seconds.  It really makes it easier to be full blast easily and being able to cut it off fast. I just timed it on youtube video.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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takeshi
Senior Member
takeshi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 968
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto 3.0
Grinder: Super Jolly
Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:17am
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

DeanOK Said:

I am not sure I would want one too much faster than 20 or 25 seconds. Seems like with a small amount of milk you wouldn't have time to create good microfoam before it was so hot you had to quit.

Posted August 20, 2013 link

It's all in what you're used to.  I just switched from the Silvia to the Duetto 3 and the latter is faster (or at least seems to be but it also has a 4 hole tip).  I'm finally starting to get the hang of it.
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CarloM
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Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 5:43pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

takeshi Said:

It's all in what you're used to.  I just switched from the Silvia to the Duetto 3 and the latter is faster (or at least seems to be but it also has a 4 hole tip).  I'm finally starting to get the hang of it.

Posted August 21, 2013 link

Are you finding it easier to get latte-art microfoam? The kind that is the same density all over?
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,150
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Thu Aug 22, 2013, 5:40am
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

CarloM Said:

Are you finding it easier to get latte-art microfoam? The kind that is the same density all over?

Posted August 21, 2013 link

Once you get used to the power, I also have a Duetto, it is very nice microfoam. However until you get used to the power it happens so fast that it is easy to screw it up. As I mentioned above turning the temp down in the steam boiler will lessen the force and increase working time.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Thu Aug 22, 2013, 2:54pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

germantownrob Said:

Once you get used to the power, I also have a Duetto, it is very nice microfoam. However until you get used to the power it happens so fast that it is easy to screw it up. As I mentioned above turning the temp down in the steam boiler will lessen the force and increase working time.

Posted August 22, 2013 link

Thanks for your insight! I'll definitely keep it in mind if the steam power is too overwhelming at first. But I'm gonna try to learn how to do it at normal power (after all I can't believe it's any more powerful than the four jets that come out of the machines at Tomo, Intelligentsia, Luxxe, etc.) and get good at it. Even if it takes me a gallon of milk! :D
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,150
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri Aug 23, 2013, 4:13am
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

CarloM Said:

Thanks for your insight! I'll definitely keep it in mind if the steam power is too overwhelming at first. But I'm gonna try to learn how to do it at normal power (after all I can't believe it's any more powerful than the four jets that come out of the machines at Tomo, Intelligentsia, Luxxe, etc.) and get good at it. Even if it takes me a gallon of milk! :D

Posted August 22, 2013 link

Your machine will arrive soon enough!
Here is a chart Click Here (www.home-barista.com) , the pressure at a temp will be the same at similar elevations so it doesn't matter what machine you are working on. Boiler size only changes how much of that pressure you will have before it begins to drop when steaming. Steam wand tips, pitcher shape, and amount of milk being steamed will all have an effect on the results you will get as well as technique. For example if I use the Duettos two hole tip with a 10oz pitcher at 262f boiler temp the milk will jump out of the pitcher, reducing the temp to 255f will keep the milk in the pitcher, now with a four hole tip I can steam 4oz of milk in the same pitcher at 262f and it is at temp 5sec or more quicker then at 255f, the technique of wand placement is very different for a two hole tip then a four hole tip and a bell pitcher compared to a tapered pitcher changes placement as well.

Oh yeah, think all milk works the same steaming? Unless you try all the milks available in your area you won't know which one creates the best microfoam. I have found that the same company that I like is great in half gallons but the gallons are processed at a different plant and will not produce the same results.

Good luck and have fun.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Aug 23, 2013, 4:00pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

Thanks for that Rob (I think I found the chart on H-B, the link you had led me to an error page). I knew that different milk manufacturers (along with fat % content) made a difference but that's the first I heard that milk from the same company foamed differently if you purchased a different size! Wow!

Looking forward to the fun trial and error period that will be coming my way in hopefully a couple of weeks! :)
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Aug 23, 2013, 4:47pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

Publix Whole Milk works well for me.... my fiance only drinks soy or almond though and I've found those two hard to do right, they seem to "burn" much easier and quicker and don't get nice and "micro foamed". I've noticed that too at shops where my drink will be fine, but her's isn't.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Aug 23, 2013, 5:25pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

According to wikipedia's microfoam entry...

Physics: It is created by denaturing milk proteins such as casein and whey; the protein attracts and holds gas on its surfaces, creating microfoam

Given how soy and almond milk probably don't contain either, having difficulty creating microfoam perhaps isn't too surprising for those drinks using that as milk substitutes.

Definitely looking forward to getting the machine. It seems like it will never come.
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