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Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Experts: Will I...  
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 647
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Aug 17, 2013, 1:26pm
Subject: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

I am currently using a CC1. I will soon have a new B2. If I use the same coffee, tamping technique, and same grinder, will I notice a taste difference between these two machines?
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,378
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Aug 17, 2013, 7:50pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

DeanOK Said:

I am currently using a CC1. I will soon have a new B2. If I use the same coffee, tamping technique, and same grinder, will I notice a taste difference between these two machines?

Posted August 17, 2013 link

Depends on your taste, technique and beans
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 647
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:11am
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

DavecUK Said:

Depends on your taste, technique and beans

Posted August 17, 2013 link

I will surely be disappointed if I don't taste the difference or at least see a big improvement in the quality of my shots.

Admittedly, I come from a beginner's perspective... but let's face it, we all started there. Even though I started dabbling with espresso about 18 years ago, I never knew much about it until I started reading coffeegeek. In the 90's I had a cheap machine and enjoyed it immensely. From the date of purchase in Oct of 1995 (Briel ES-52 that sold for $159.97) I loved my creations, but one thing I had going for me back then is I had never drank anyone else's espresso except mine... so I had nothing to compare it to. So, I have to say the early days with the cheap machine were my most enjoyable. My memories of those drinks tasted much better than anything I create now... but the reality may be different... who knows!

One thing I haven't discussed here before is something that I noticed watching videos of bottomless PFs. Many of the E61 machines can produce a very thick dark extraction at the portafilter that seems to last the entire shot. In other words, not many blonde streaks in the flow. I noticed that many low end machines (if not all) seem to have a lot of blonde streaking in the flow on the bottom of the basket. Maybe this doesn't mean anything, maybe it does. Maybe it is the difference in the roast... I don't know. But this observation was one thing that pushed me over the edge to upgrade to the B2. I have not been able to get a flow out of the basket nearly as dark and rich with the machine I have using fresh coffee as what I have observed in the online videos of the E61 machines. Probably the thickest richest flow I have noticed in videos is the slayer. I think this one is able to get the thick rich flow because of the pressure profiling. Until I win the lottery, I will have to probably live with an E61 machine.

For those out there that have a perfect memory, the details of my first machine have changed..... I originally told my stories about my first machine based on what I could remember...which turned out to be the results of a rusted brain... but I recently found the receipt and the manual for that machine... so now I know for sure what I had.
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Sigma
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Apr 2013
Posts: 33
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:31pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

What I found going from a crappy $300 machine to a Rocket r58 was consistency. Not every shot is a god shot, but I can consistently hit "very good". I still sink shots, especially because I have a Preciso that I use for both press pot and espresso. But the consistency of the shot is way up, and I think that is  what you will find. With time, you "best" from the CC1 will become a very average shot. This is due to the temperature stability, etc of the E61.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,378
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 7:34pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

DeanOK Said:

I will surely be disappointed if I don't taste the difference or at least see a big improvement in the quality of my shots..

Posted August 18, 2013 link

It's a tricky one as always, because i don't know enough about you. e.g. If you enjoy a coffee at starbucks, then, no, you probably wont be able to tell the difference, in fact if you can even drink their coffee, then you may not be able to tell the difference.

Also give me a chisel and a piece of rock, you get rubble...give it to Michaelangelo and you get a statue.
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myallawala
Senior Member
myallawala
Joined: 25 Dec 2012
Posts: 86
Location: San Antonio, TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Mazzer Major & Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama Burner
Drip: Hario V60 & Chemex
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 7:52pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

I might be able to give some perspective..

At work I have had the chance to play with a 15k three group La Cimbali heat exchange at my leisure and I've had a chance to put the same coffees in both it and my CC1. I've found a few interesting things.. firstly I discovered just how capable my CC1 really is. I almost ALWAYS make a better tasting shot with my CC1 than the La Cimbali (even Cappas). It can be inconsistent sometimes (actually fairly often) because of its small form/mass and this is where the La Cimbali trumps it (5L+ more boiler volume, so..). The La Cimbali also trumps it in Capacity and steam power. I do, however, find that I don't necessitate the capacity unless I am entertaining (which I can't justify a 2K machine for just yet) and the steam power really lets me work the milk to exactly the volume that I want. Sometimes the milk slips from my control on the Cimbali because it's just so massively powerful. Other than these things, the CC1 is really a champ. I'm not saying it's better for a lot of reasons, but it is quite capable.

I've also taken Intelligentsia, Klatch, and Cuvee SO or Blends being sold and brewed on La Marzocco Stradas in town home to try on the CC1 and here too I've found I can make equal or better shots. I don't think this will always be the case, but so far it has been my experience. I also took home an El Sal from a guy in town brewing on a Slayer and here's where I REALLY liked my shot better.

For the record, I'm using a Mazzer Major and VST basket/tamper with the CC1.

One last thing.. I love my CC1 but I desperately want to upgrade when I'm out of school because the machine isn't all that attractive, recovers too slow, has meh steam and a meh steam wand and a meh steam knob, has a noisy pump, and blah blah blah. Stuff that you get with a $700 machine. Nothing new to say here, BUT great machine and I really like it!
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 647
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 8:08pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

myallawala Said:

I might be able to give some perspective..

At work I have had the chance to play with a 15k three group La Cimbali heat exchange at my leisure and I've had a chance to put the same coffees in both it and my CC1. I've found a few interesting things.. firstly I discovered just how capable my CC1 really is. I almost ALWAYS make a better tasting shot with my CC1 than the La Cimbali (even Cappas). It can be inconsistent sometimes (actually fairly often) because of its small form/mass and this is where the La Cimbali trumps it (5L+ more boiler volume, so..). The La Cimbali also trumps it in Capacity and steam power. I do, however, find that I don't necessitate the capacity unless I am entertaining (which I can't justify a 2K machine for just yet) and the steam power really lets me work the milk to exactly the volume that I want. Sometimes the milk slips from my control on the Cimbali because it's just so massively powerful. Other than these things, the CC1 is really a champ. I'm not saying it's better for a lot of reasons, but it is quite capable.

I've also taken Intelligentsia, Klatch, and Cuvee SO or Blends being sold and brewed on La Marzocco Stradas in town home to try on the CC1 and here too I've found I can make equal or better shots. I don't think this will always be the case, but so far it has been my experience. I also took home an El Sal from a guy in town brewing on a Slayer and here's where I REALLY liked my shot better.

For the record, I'm using a Mazzer Major and VST basket/tamper with the CC1.

One last thing.. I love my CC1 but I desperately want to upgrade when I'm out of school because the machine isn't all that attractive, recovers too slow, has meh steam and a meh steam wand and a meh steam knob, has a noisy pump, and blah blah blah. Stuff that you get with a $700 machine. Nothing new to say here, BUT great machine and I really like it!

Posted August 18, 2013 link

Thank you! My shots vary a lot. A lot of it is me... I have a heck of a time keeping my grind and tamp consistent. I am still having trouble determining exactly what a good shot tastes like (for me). If I don't get consistent after the B2 arrives I plan on taking a home barista class in Dallas to help me with my skills. I usually do well to make one drink a day. My coffee is degrading in between shots... I am constantly working my grind finer.  For a long time my pressure was off and I was turning out terrible shots.. got that fixed (thanks Bill), and now I am trying to figure out how to get those thick syrupy shots.  I do best with fresh coffee. I don't like the noisy pump on my CC1 either... and one of my big attractions to the B2 was the rotary pump.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 647
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 8:38pm
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

myallawala Said:

...I also took home an El Sal from a guy in town brewing on a Slayer and here's where I REALLY liked my shot better.

Posted August 18, 2013 link

You made me go searching for a Slayer in my area... found one (Slayer 2.0) about an hour away. I may make a special trip there just to try it.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,947
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Mon Aug 19, 2013, 6:36am
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

The only shots I've ever had off a Slayer were in Barista Parlor, in Nashville. They were amazing! I think the Slayer can do wonders with the right barista at the helm.

everyone does better with fresh beans!

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 318
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Mon Aug 19, 2013, 9:30am
Subject: Re: Experts: Will I be able to taste a difference between CC1 and Vetrano B2?
 

As emradguy says, "with the right barista at the helm".

I've had quite a few "we use Intelligentsia beans" lattes and capps around Los Angeles, most with expensive machines, that were nowhere near as good as the lattes and capps made at an official Intelligentsia Coffee shop.

I'd like to see if myallawala ever compared his shot with the baristas from Intelligentsia (either the Chicago or L.A. shops). If he can truly make better shots than Intelligentsia baristas with his CC1, I'm going to cancel my V2B preorder and just get a CC1!
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