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Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
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pmaru77
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 59
Location: San Diego
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Maestro Plus
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: KRUPS 4 cup (Melitta #2)
Roaster: Behmor Roaster
Posted Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:18pm
Subject: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

Looking for a dream machine.  It would be an HX and be similar or a Rocket machine. I think DB would be too big and more complex to maintain. It would have no burn wand(s)  I guess double wall wands are the no burners? It would have water hookup and also drain hookup capabilities.
And of course would make great coffee and steamed milk.  It would look nice next to a Mazzur mini or equiv.  I like the utilitarian design with gauges and real metal.  I would like the be able to work on it (maintenence) and service myself.  I have mech abilities.  I would like it to be somewhat effecient.  Like a insulated boiler.  Not into heating the whole machine up just to get some warm cups on top.  Can I have fench fries with that?
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 646
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Aug 17, 2013, 1:28am
Subject: Re: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

pmaru77 Said:

Looking for a dream machine.  It would be an HX and be similar or a Rocket machine. It would have water hookup and also drain hookup capabilities.

Posted August 16, 2013 link

First thing that comes to mind is the Rocket Cellini Premium Plus. It doesn't have plumb in capability and is $100 over your maximum budget.
The Quickmill Anita is about where your budget is, but has to be converted for plumb in use using a plumb-in kit and a pressure regulator if you want to plumb in later.

IMO, It's been my own experience that by the time you spend the extra money on a plumbing kit and a pressure regulator, you might as well have just gone for a rotary pump machine to begin with.
The price difference works out to be fairly small. As well, retaining your sanity from hearing a quiet whirring pump instead of a loud vibration pump is worth the extra money.

I feel that your budget is too low for a plumb-in capable machine. You need to bump that up to at least $2000. The cheapest rotary pump machine on the market that I'm aware of is the Quickmill Vetrano.
However, in saying that, there isn't any reservoir capability with this machine, unless you count using a large water bottle as a reservoir.

If you really want to be able to switch between plumbed in and reservoir operation, yet still stay HX, It sounds to me like your dream machine would either be the Rocket Evoluzione or the Izzo Alex.
(Not the Izzo Alex Duetto.) The problem is that both machines violate your maximum budget by about $500.

Good luck!

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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pmaru77
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 59
Location: San Diego
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Maestro Plus
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: KRUPS 4 cup (Melitta #2)
Roaster: Behmor Roaster
Posted Sat Aug 17, 2013, 8:38am
Subject: Re: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

NEW 2013 ROCKET CELLINI EVOLUZIONE V2 ROTARY PUMP ESPRESSO COFFEE  $1690 (on Ebay) plus shipping from Italy.

In the states it is more money but they give you extras.  This was the machine I was refering to.  I agree, a rotary pump is a huge improvement.

CELLINI PLUS for $1490

My budget is whatever I decide is right.  So I'm not confined to the 1500-1700, I was just refering to those price breaks on the rocket on ebay/
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tglodjo
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tglodjo
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 208
Location: Jackson, TN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Wave, V60, Chemex, Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Aug 17, 2013, 10:39am
Subject: Re: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

Sounds to me that a Rocket Evoluzione (Giotto or Cellini) is what you're looking for, especially if your partial to the Rocket design. Certainly there are many other machines that perform similarly and are in the same price range. I would just call some of the distributors (Chris Coffee, Seattle Coffee Gear, etc.) and talk through your wants and preferences, and they can help you decide. Also, by calling, you can often get a price much lower than what is advertised online. Also look for Open Box deals.
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pmaru77
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 59
Location: San Diego
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Maestro Plus
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: KRUPS 4 cup (Melitta #2)
Roaster: Behmor Roaster
Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:25am
Subject: Re: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

I'm starting to think that looks are maybe not as important as house keeping.  I'm going to stick it out on this Silvia I have until I really sure of my next move.  If I can work the bugs out on my stuff now, I may be ok for a while.  Also I don;t want to drop a lot of coin just because I cannot figure out the Silvia.

Shots way to fast.....probably a Preciso problem.   I'm going to bring some grinds down to the local and see if the Barista can make a good shot.  And then get some grinds from him and see if my machine works differently.

Frothing ........just cannot get any thickness on the milk.  I think I did it once pretty well, but not again.  Best I can do is warm up milk and then foam the top and call it a cap.

Also my home roast beans are not inducive to espresso, as they are single origin and it seems like espresso is a blend of many diff beans.... I have to get some ethiopean, and maybe some other to make a blend.  I've been using local roast espresso beans lately.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,468
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:14am
Subject: Re: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

Espresso can be made with any beans not just a blend. You can not have a shop grind for your machine, this is why you need a geinder even if they can get them to pull OK at the shop. You need to really work on your skill set before looking to upgrade equipment.

 
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Wayne P.
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Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 646
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:57pm
Subject: Re: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

OK, Let's step back a bit here...

First and foremost, upgrading to a better machine will not do anything about your shots. It will make it easier and faster to pull a shot, but the Silvia
is a fairly capable machine in itself for home use. (That is, if you don't mind waiting for steam or temperature surfing.)

The issues you have with steaming are not the fault of the machine, but rather your steaming technique. There's a whole forum about that and there are
a lot of youtube videos which show you how to do it correctly.

Second, see what you need to do to get your Precisio to "choke" your Silvia. Only then, once you can do that, then work on loosening up the grind or reducing the dose.

Third, buy a scale and measure your doses. Don't use your eyesight to judge the weight of a shot. Worst case scenario, grind until you get a "Mountain"
of coffee in the portafilter and level it off with the flat edge of a knife so your doses are at least consistent, until you can buy a scale.

Fourth, if you can't choke your Silvia with a heavy dose and the finest grind that your Precisio can do, then there is something wrong with your grinder. You either
need to get it calibrated or repaired. Your reseller should help you out on this and provide you with the technical support you need.

If you are insistent that the Precisio isn't cutting it and you want a higher quality shot, you should consider upgrading your grinder before you consider upgrading your machine.
There are a lot of grinders on the market that will make your Silvia sing. For example, the Mazzer Mini Electronic, Macap MC4 or a Compak K3 Touch.

I'd like to emphasize though, the Precisio is an espresso capable grinder. If you are getting fast shots with it, it's either due to operator error or it is an issue with the grinder.
I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to get a decent shot with the equipment that you have.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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Angman
Senior Member
Angman
Joined: 8 Apr 2012
Posts: 150
Location: Vancouver BC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vibiemme Super Domobar,...
Grinder: K10 Fresh, HG One 83mm,...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Technivorm, Hario Woodneck,...
Roaster: Hottop 8828P
Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 3:24pm
Subject: Re: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

Realistically nothing wrong with the equipment. It's all user error and technique. Of course you would have more consistency and an easier job with more capable equipment. I would certainly look at a more capable grinder before a new machine. The Silvia is fine if youre making a few shots a day but is a nuisance as it does have poor steaming capabilities. A good HX machine would allow you to pull a shot and steam nonstop.

The machines you listed and mentioned are all good machines. You do say you are mechanically capable. I would continue to practice with your Sylvia. Buy a better grinder when you get a chance and scour the buy/sell Andover Craigslist for used but good machines. If youre patient enough gems always pop up. I would also like to recommend the Vibiemme. It's a fantastic mahine with a massive grouphead. I think there was a great deal in the buy/sell for a PID'd version. I have the same without the PID and its quality and performance is great.

Good luck
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,010
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

pmaru77 Said:

I'm starting to think that looks are maybe not as important as house keeping.  I'm going to stick it out on this Silvia I have until I really sure of my next move.  If I can work the bugs out on my stuff now, I may be ok for a while.  Also I don;t want to drop a lot of coin just because I cannot figure out the Silvia.

Shots way to fast.....probably a Preciso problem.   I'm going to bring some grinds down to the local and see if the Barista can make a good shot.  And then get some grinds from him and see if my machine works differently.

Frothing ........just cannot get any thickness on the milk.  I think I did it once pretty well, but not again.  Best I can do is warm up milk and then foam the top and call it a cap.

Also my home roast beans are not inducive to espresso, as they are single origin and it seems like espresso is a blend of many diff beans.... I have to get some ethiopean, and maybe some other to make a blend.  I've been using local roast espresso beans lately.

Posted August 18, 2013 link


I would stick with your Silvia at least until it breaks down and you wanna replace then with something bigger.  The Silvia's made of a lot of commercial parts that you will find in a larger machine.  Copper piping and steam wand are the same type you would find in a commercial machine.  If you are getting shots that are too fast then I would bet it's your grinder.  I would put the cost into a solid commercial grinder like Mazzer or Macap. You can find both used online anywhere. They are built to last so all you need is a set of new burrs and your good to go.  Found my Macap MX ($1,000 grinder) for $350 in mint shape.  Oh and btw if you ever wanna slow your shots down with the Silvia you can relive pressure with opening the steam wand (pressure profiling) just catch the water with something and pour back into the boiler.  Finally for frothing it's achievable with the Silvia trust me it just takes technique.  It will be harder with a larger prosumer machine because the milk heats up a lot faster.  I would stick your pitchers in the fridge to slow the heat up time  and take a look at this video to help.
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pmaru77
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 59
Location: San Diego
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Maestro Plus
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: KRUPS 4 cup (Melitta #2)
Roaster: Behmor Roaster
Posted Mon Aug 26, 2013, 1:10pm
Subject: Re: Those $1500 to $1700 Rocket machines,,,,,,,,,,,are they HX.?
 

Uhhhhh.  Looks like it is a grinder problem.  (Preciso refurb) I initially tried th 38 setting to no avail.... and from a #6 setting I've been super packing the puck to try to get the shot to slow down.  Well, I tried the 0 setting grind and it is the same as all the others between 0 and 8.  Note: this is adjusting while machine is grinding so as to not harm any internal parts.

I emailed Baratza.  I not too excited about having to rebuild the machine myself, but maybe it's best  that I do it RIGHT myself....if that is the solution.

If I can get my money back, I'd rather buy a grinder that has no history of problems.  At this point, I don;t care what the cost is.

What grinder should I look at, Mazzer mini?   I do not want a monster machine though.  It must be somewhat compact if possible.
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