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Another DB Quickmill
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Another DB...  
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 720
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sun Sep 8, 2013, 7:13pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Deniss Said:

Hi,

Could we start a thread about Quickmill double boilers? i'm feeling a bit left out with my QM67...  and by the way the steam boiler on the QM67 is 1L (confirmed with Laura Molteni at the Quick Mill Italian factory)

It would be nice to have someone gives us the ideal PID settings for both the QM67 And the Vetrona DB.

Regards

Posted September 8, 2013 link

I think Dave has already provided PID settings for the Vetrona.

I don't really understand this owner's forum concept so much. Once an owner's forum has been active a while it gets huge and you have to read a lot of stuff you don't care about to look through it. I would think you would get more help from the community if you just started a thread about PID settings for Verona and QM67.... more people would be more likely to see that that if you buried it in a hundred page owner's forum.
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sun Sep 8, 2013, 7:17pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DeanOK Said:

I think Dave has already provided PID settings for the Vetrona.

I don't really understand this owner's forum concept so much. Once an owner's forum has been active a while it gets huge and you have to read a lot of stuff you don't care about to look through it. I would think you would get more help from the community if you just started a thread about PID settings for Verona and QM67.... more people would be more likely to see that that if you buried it in a hundred page owner's forum.

Posted September 8, 2013 link

''

you can just search for whatever u want..
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 5:07am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DeanOK Said:

I think Dave has already provided PID settings for the Vetrona.

I don't really understand this owner's forum concept so much. Once an owner's forum has been active a while it gets huge and you have to read a lot of stuff you don't care about to look through it. I would think you would get more help from the community if you just started a thread about PID settings for Verona and QM67.... more people would be more likely to see that that if you buried it in a hundred page owner's forum.

Posted September 8, 2013 link

And this is a 40 page monster mostly posts before this machine was in any bodies hand. I can think of only 3 monster owners threads, Vario, BDB, and the Brazen, none of which I bother with anymore.

Owner threads in general are about owners and potential buyers to get answers from current and past owners plus it is a good place for all the specific questions for a particular machine. You just gave a great example of what happens in a monster thread by telling someone that the posted PID settings from Dave is somewhere in the nearly 1200 posts.

I also have my personal reasons. CG is not iPad or smart phone friendly, if I want to post or edit I have to scroll through every post to hit submit, it take forever and I am dreading I have to go swipe my finger for 20 seconds now.
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Zevi
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 124
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 5:33am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

While it makes perfect sense that one should start individual threads focusing on specific issues, the concept of owners thread has its merit too. It is a cumulative knowledge base of using/setting the machine. Think about all the questions and answers provided here -- unless you take the time to copy/paste on your own computer the interesting/valuable posts -- how would you keep that info in one place? Yes, there are a lot of idle posts, but the overall value of the knowledge accumulated here is incredible, in my view.

The real problem is the inefficiency of the search engine on this forum. In other forums that I'm using, you can search specific threads. Here you can search only forums. It is impossible to search for PID-related posts only in this V2B thread; my search for "PID" will give me everything in the "Espresso Machines" forum. In fact, I wish there was a way to download/save the full thread: I can then filter out on my computer the excess stuff and keep the important items.

And yes, I totally agree with the unfriendliness of this forum with iPhone etc.; this thread size makes it practically impossible to post from such devices.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:59am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

FYI - CCS updated their manual to reflect the multiple PID values. Not sure what else they updated (I didn't go through a page-by-page comparison).

Some new things I've learned/observations I've made about my Vetrano
  • It heats up pretty quickly. I know the conventional wisdom is 30-45 minutes for optimum temp but I was in a rush and pulled a really great shot the other day in about 18 minutes, and this is in 15A mode.
  • 15A mode - though it does give "brew boiler priority" (and I confirmed this in the PID), very often both boiler lights go on for me when it's warming up, and both temps rise in the PID, so clearly it is able to power both boilers in 15A mode.
  • The E61 group retains heat like a mother! Thing was still hot to the touch an hour after I shut it off!
  • Putting small plastic adhesive sliders on the feet, while not the most aesthetically pleasing, has made rotation of the machine to fill the tank easy as pie!
  • I get better microfoam than my Silvia with the 2-hole tip, but I really can't wait for the 4-hole tip to arrive. Hopefully this week.
  • I wish there was a "water in the tank is getting low" warning as opposed to the shut off that happens. When the magnetic float gets too low, the pump will simply stop operating, even in mid-shot. Luckily this hasn't happened to me while I was brewing (I was doing a cleaning flush). But this would seriously piss me off it it happened mid-shot because I'd have to sink it.
  • MacChrisTay's (CCS's bean) is pretty decent. Not going to replace Black Cat Espresso for me, but so far I like the flavor.
  • That intermittent noise is starting to bother me. I thought it might be vibration of the pump or motor against something. I'm hoping it's not something more serious like one of them is struggling. I don't see the pressure gauge dropping when I hear the noise. I'll open it up this weekend and see what I can see. If I can capture a video I will and post it, maybe someone here can help diagnose?
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Zevi
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 124
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Tue Sep 10, 2013, 4:05pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

CarloM Said:

FYI - CCS updated their manual to reflect the multiple PID values. Not sure what else they updated (I didn't go through a page-by-page comparison).

Posted September 10, 2013 link

Two days ago I called them and pointed out two items that are incorrect in the manual: (1) the parameters table does not reflect the PID settings in the actual machine, and (2) the default steam temp was 255 (not 263). From scanning the new document, these seems to be the only changes as far as I can tell.

CarloM Said:

15A mode - though it does give "brew boiler priority" (and I confirmed this in the PID), very often both boiler lights go on for me when it's warming up, and both temps rise in the PID, so clearly it is able to power both boilers in 15A mode.

Posted September 10, 2013 link

Are you sure you're running at 15 amp? I have only observed the amber lights alternating; never both at the same time.

CarloM Said:

I get better microfoam than my Silvia with the 2-hole tip, but I really can't wait for the 4-hole tip to arrive.

Posted September 10, 2013 link

Still struggling here. My older machine with 1 hole created better microfoam, I could also make the milk "swirl" in the pitcher much easier with the one-directional hole; with 2 holes and I suspect also with the 4 holes, it is more difficult to orient it in such a way that the milk will move in a swirling motion in the pitcher. We'll have to wait and see.

CarloM Said:

I wish there was a "water in the tank is getting low" warning as opposed to the shut off that happens.

Posted September 10, 2013 link

Me too. I'm practically working with the tank cover open to constantly check the water level. I am definitely going to plumb it soon. Having the option to plum or tank was a major plus consideration for this machine.

CarloM Said:

That intermittent noise is starting to bother me. I thought it might be vibration of the pump or motor against something. I'm hoping it's not something more serious like one of them is struggling. I don't see the pressure gauge dropping when I hear the noise. I'll open it up this weekend and see what I can see. If I can capture a video I will and post it, maybe someone here can help diagnose?

Posted September 10, 2013 link

Not sure I know what noise you're referring to. If you post a video I'd be happy to compare/comment.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Tue Sep 10, 2013, 8:40pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

Zevi - I took your advice and confirmed I was running in 15A mode. I ordered it in 15A mode. It came with the 15A converter cord, which I am using. And also I've used it with just the boiler on, which according to the manual if you're running in "6" mode (both boilers heating) it shouldn't be able to do, you need both switches on according to page 10 of the manual under the F.02 setting.

Well, I just checked and the value was 6! So I've gone ahead and changed it to 4, brew boiler priority mode. Yikes, does anyone know if damage could have been done if it was run in 20A mode with a 15A converter cord? I definitely ordered it from CCS in 15A mode (I just re-checked my invoice and they did include the 15A cord) and this is the first time I've gone in to look at the PID settings so I know I didn't inadvertently change it before.

Re: the noise from either the motor or the pump, now that I've changed to 15A setting, I'm going to see if this makes a difference. Maybe if it was the pump or motor struggling, it was due to the 20A setting pulling from a 15A cord/outlet? We'll see, I'm just completely guessing right now. If the noise pops up again I will know it wasn't related to running in the wrong amperage, and will try to take and post a video.
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Zevi
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 124
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Wed Sep 11, 2013, 5:28am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

CarloM Said:

Zevi - I took your advice and confirmed I was running in 15A mode. I ordered it in 15A mode. It came with the 15A converter cord, which I am using. And also I've used it with just the boiler on, which according to the manual if you're running in "6" mode (both boilers heating) it shouldn't be able to do, you need both switches on according to page 10 of the manual under the F.02 setting.

Well, I just checked and the value was 6! So I've gone ahead and changed it to 4, brew boiler priority mode. Yikes, does anyone know if damage could have been done if it was run in 20A mode with a 15A converter cord? I definitely ordered it from CCS in 15A mode (I just re-checked my invoice and they did include the 15A cord) and this is the first time I've gone in to look at the PID settings so I know I didn't inadvertently change it before.

Posted September 10, 2013 link

I'm glad things got sorted out.  Actually, that is another change CCS put in the new manual: when I talked to them , I mentioned that the modes setup is confusing -- although there are references to these two operational mode in various places, the manual only implies about it; they talk about "4" being brew priority and "6" being steam priority. If one wants to use 20 Amp circuit and take advantage on this mode -- how is he/she supposed to know that "steam priority" and "20 Amp mode" are one and the same? Now the manual (p.10) says so explicitly. But I still think that it is not quite right -- as you noticed in the 20 Amp mode -- the steam boiler does not get priority - it is just that both boilers can be powered at the same time.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Wed Sep 11, 2013, 7:45am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

Zevi Said:

I'm glad things got sorted out.  Actually, that is another change CCS put in the new manual: when I talked to them , I mentioned that the modes setup is confusing -- although there are references to these two operational mode in various places, the manual only implies about it; they talk about "4" being brew priority and "6" being steam priority. If one wants to use 20 Amp circuit and take advantage on this mode -- how is he/she supposed to know that "steam priority" and "20 Amp mode" are one and the same? Now the manual (p.10) says so explicitly. But I still think that it is not quite right -- as you noticed in the 20 Amp mode -- the steam boiler does not get priority - it is just that both boilers can be powered at the same time.

Posted September 11, 2013 link

Yeah still a little confusing but much better than before. Actually the only part that's wrong which they need to correct is that part about if you're running on "6" both boiler priority that both switches need to be on or neither boiler will heat up. When I didn't know my machine was set to 6 I've powered just the brew boiler on and it worked fine. You would think it should work this way because there are people who want to run in 20A mode all the time (they have the dedicated circuit and outlet) but don't always want to make milk based drinks. It would be bad design to force those who can run in 20A mode to always have both boilers on even if they just want a shot of espresso.

So does anyone else (DavecUK?) think any damage would have resulted from the fact that my machine was left in 20A mode by CCS but was running from a 15A cord and outlet? Everything seems to be fine. That motor/pump noise/vibration did creep up this morning so going to 15A didn't resolve it. I'll try and post a video later, I only make 2 drinks a day unless I'm entertaining so it's a bit hard to get motivated to capture a video especially since I'd have to be both the videographer and the barista. :D
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,466
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Sep 11, 2013, 9:26am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

CarloM Said:

So does anyone else (DavecUK?) think any damage would have resulted from the fact that my machine was left in 20A mode by CCS but was running from a 15A cord and outlet? Everything seems to be fine. That motor/pump noise/vibration did creep up this morning so going to 15A didn't resolve it. I'll try and post a video later, I only make 2 drinks a day unless I'm entertaining so it's a bit hard to get motivated to capture a video especially since I'd have to be both the videographer and the barista. :D

Posted September 11, 2013 link

No I don't believe there would be any damage to the cord, outlet, wiring or fuse box.

In the UK we have 13A cords, specific capacity wiring fuses etc.., these all all take many times the rated loading for certain periods of time., the second 13.2 amps is drawn a fuse won't blow, it might never blow, at 15A it might blow after many hours at 20A after a few minutes at 30A perhaps a few seconds at 50A immediately. It's similar with Circuit breakers. The wiring in the wall is rated as so many amps, but it will carry many times that, it might get warm, it might even get hot....however it's rating is what it is. Your brief fray into the 20A world will not have done any damage as the maximum loading from your machine might have been for a few minutes, after which the brew boiler was approaching it's preset temp and the PID would have cut down that side of the power consumption markedly. not enough time for damage to have been done.

I also suspect that you could probably run the machine at 20A indefinitely on a 15A socket, presuming the wiring was in good condition (e.g. not 30 or 40 years old).....it's just that it's not rated to handle it. it might get warm etc..I am of course not recommending that you do this. Also you must have had a fuse/mcb protecting the circuit and that didn't blow or trip?
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