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Another DB Quickmill
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Another DB...  
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 620
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 10:26am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

cuznvin Said:

Seems like the aussie disappeared.....

Posted August 3, 2013 link

Maybe he is on a caffeine binge  :)

I could easily plumb this thing in if I wanted to modify my cabinetry, but hate to do that. Planning on new granite counter tops soon and I just don't want to drill holes or modify that backsplash.  Probably a short sided way of looking at it because I plan on staying here until I die or they put me in a home... so probably should enjoy the benefit of a plumbed in machine... but I just can't do it.
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cuznvin
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Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 10:28am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DeanOK Said:

Maybe he is on a caffeine binge  :)

I could easily plumb this thing in if I wanted to modify my cabinetry, but hate to do that. Planning on new granite counter tops soon and I just don't want to drill holes or modify that backsplash.  Probably a short sided way of looking at it because I plan on staying here until I die or they put me in a home... so probably should enjoy the benefit of a plumbed in machine... but I just can't do it.

Posted August 3, 2013 link

So if you are getting new granite countertops soon, you can then plumb it in.
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 620
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 10:47am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

cuznvin Said:

So if you are getting new granite countertops soon, you can then plumb it in.

Posted August 3, 2013 link

If I wanted to put the holes in the counter or the backsplash... but I don't.

I have also got this idea of building me a dedicated cabinet just for the espresso machine and have a spot for a 5 gallon bottle of water under the machine and then use a pump to pump from the bottle right into the machine. I use bottled water anyway. If I plumb it up, I would want some kind of good filter and softener.  All stuff to take care of/think about later.... who knows?
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,326
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 11:15am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

I am also still surprised to read comments of group head or front panel flex on the machine. I did go into a fair bit of detail earlier, but perhaps people forgot, I also said it has some slight flex as most machines do. The portfilter doesn't have to be locked in very hard to not leak, if it leaks and you have to lock it in harder and harder, then it's probably time to spend some money on a new group gasket. Usually every 4-6 months is ideal, but you can go longer if you don't use your machine very much. As you can see it is perfectly OK to lock it in with light pressure (i'm only using 1 finger to prove my point), for people with arthritis, use the heel of the hand of lower arm if you want...Clearly there are no leaks and I don't see worrying amounts of front panel or group flex. Sure if you are really ham fisted and do it hard enough, you can make it flex slightly (as it would on most machines)...but why would you want to.

Note: this is the blind filter basket and is slightly thicker around the rim than the single, double basket, so the handle will actually lock over slightly further with a coffee basket in.

For this Video I actually lock it in a little harder than it looks (cos I'm a big bloke with strong fingers). Here is the massive front panel flex your all worried about.....if you can't see it up the resolution to 1080p and play it 3 or 4 times, you won't see any flex on the front panel, but you can catch a slight movement, at the right hand edge of the group. It's difficult to see and slightly exaggerated (optical illusion) by the camera refocussing because my hand is there. I also tried to get the best camera angle for showing any movement no matter how slight. This is flex right at the edge of the group furthest away from the front panel. I really don't see it as a problem, but as always, if you don't like it....buy one that flexes less than this.....if you can find one and it meets the rest of your requirements for a Dual Boiler machine

Click Here (www.youtube.com)

Personally, I could never give this sort of flex a negative in a review, because it simply isn't a problem and I've seen many machines that flex MUCH more and they are not a problem either, even all those machines that have had the panels strengthened in response to forum comments...none of them were a problem before being "fixed", at least not the ones I have tested.

P.S. To the guy wondering about height and his cabinets and running without feet attached, I really can't comment....seems a lot of trouble to go to, perhaps consider a different make of machine that's shorter, or simply use felt furniture pads and slide it out to fill it....which is what I do.
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 11:26am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

I am also still surprised to read comments of group head or front panel flex on the machine. I did go into a fair bit of detail earlier, but perhaps people forgot, I also said it has some slight flex as most machines do. The portfilter doesn't have to be locked in very hard to not leak, if it leaks and you have to lock it in harder and harder, then it's probably time to spend some money on a new group gasket. Usually every 4-6 months is ideal, but you can go longer if you don't use your machine very much. As you can see it is perfectly OK to lock it in with light pressure (i'm only using 1 finger to prove my point), for people with arthritis, use the heel of the hand of lower arm if you want...Clearly there are no leaks and I don't see worrying amounts of front panel or group flex. Sure if you are really ham fisted and do it hard enough, you can make it flex slightly (as it would on most machines)...but why would you want to.

Note: this is the blind filter basket and is slightly thicker around the rim than the single, double basket, so the handle will actually lock over slightly further with a coffee basket in.

For this Video I actually lock it in a little harder than it looks (cos I'm a big bloke with strong fingers). Here is the massive front panel flex your all worried about.....if you can't see it up the resolution to 1080p and play it 3 or 4 times, you won't see any flex on the front panel, but you can catch a slight movement, at the right hand edge of the group. It's difficult to see and slightly exaggerated (optical illusion) by the camera refocussing because my hand is there. I also tried to get the best camera angle for showing any movement no matter how slight. This is flex right at the edge of the group furthest away from the front panel. I really don't see it as a problem, but as always, if you don't like it....buy one that flexes less than this.....if you can find one and it meets the rest of your requirements for a Dual Boiler machine

Click Here (www.youtube.com)

Personally, I could never give this sort of flex a negative in a review, because it simply isn't a problem and I've seen many machines that flex MUCH more and they are not a problem either, even all those machines that have had the panels strengthened in response to forum comments...none of them were a problem before being "fixed", at least not the ones I have tested.




P.S. To the guy wondering about height and his cabinets and running without feet attached, I really can't comment....seems a lot of trouble to go to, perhaps consider a different make of machine that's shorter, or simply use felt furniture pads and slide it out to fill it....which is what I do.

Posted August 3, 2013 link

Have you looked at the CCS demo video? Does it look like they are applying too much pressure to the portafilter?
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 620
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 11:32am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

P.S. To the guy wondering about height and his cabinets and running without feet attached, I really can't comment....seems a lot of trouble to go to, perhaps consider a different make of machine that's shorter, or simply use felt furniture pads and slide it out to fill it....which is what I do.

Posted August 3, 2013 link

Didn't plan on going without feet entirely. Just shorter legs... just thinking out loud because I know I am going to have to deal with this issue when the machine arrives. One thing I like about the legs being a bit tall is that it is easier to clean under the edge of the machine. All things for me to think about.
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CarloM
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Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 11:36am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Hey Dean sounds like we're in the same boat but I don't think I'd run it without legs. I'm going to see if I have enough clearance to do the funnel/hose refill method first. I can't put furniture sliders on mine because my surface doesn't stick out far enough for me to get clearance for the machine from the cabinets (I'd need to slide any DB-sized machine out about five inches further than the front of the machine would allow).

So basically if I can't do the funnel/hose I'm going to buy a separate stainless steel kitchen cart for the Vetrano and Mini-E. Hopefully one with a  drawer beneath it to keep my accessories.
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,326
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 11:48am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

cuznvin Said:

Have you looked at the CCS demo video? Does it look like they are applying too much pressure to the portafilter?

Posted August 3, 2013 link

I can only speak for the test machines I use..I know what pressure I applied, the portafilter I used, the gasket that's in the machine (in this case the standard gasket supplied with it) I know it doesn't leak even against a blind filter, I had the camera purposely set up to try and record flexing. I cannot speak for what Chris did in his video as I wasn't there. However, I cannot imagine that QM would bother having two production methods to produce machines where the rigidity of front panel and group varies by country....can you?

I've supplied the information for the UK machine, now you guys have to decide if the "flexing" (if you could see it) in my video was too much for you or not.
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CarloM
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Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 12:04pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

You know, an interesting thing about how much force we put into locking in our portafilters. I know that years of watching Starbucks employees ply their trade "taught" me that a large amount of force was needed to lock in my portafilter to prevent leaking (it also makes it look like you're doing "really hard work" to the untrained eye). I think even places like Intelligentsia put a certain amount of force into when they lock their PFs.

So after this whole flexing discussion we've had here, I decided over the last couple of days to put in my portafilter on my Silvia with a light touch. Guess what? No leaking, whatsoever. For nearly a year and a half I've been using probably 2-3 times more force than needed out of habit. Keep in mind the Silvia doesn't flex because it's not an E61 and the brew group doesn't attach to the front panel like the E61s do.

Based on our lengthy discussion about flex, about the complete lack of evidence that flex leads to any sort of premature failure or cracking of front panels, I think I'm just going to use a light force to lock in my PF once my V2B arrives. I'm not worried about flex at all on the V2B, or any other E61 I've been looking at before I settled on the V2B.
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CSME9
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CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 272
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Tea, Rancilio Silvia,...
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Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 12:04pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

I can only speak for the test machines I use..I know what pressure I applied, the portafilter I used, the gasket that's in the machine (in this case the standard gasket supplied with it) I know it doesn't leak even against a blind filter, I had the camera purposely set up to try and record flexing. I cannot speak for what Chris did in his video as I wasn't there. However, I cannot imagine that QM would bother having two production methods to produce machines where the rigidity of front panel and group varies by country....can you?

I've supplied the information for the UK machine, now you guys have to decide if the "flexing" (if you could see it) in my video was too much for you or not.

Posted August 3, 2013 link

The CCS video exhibits more visible flex than your video, and I do see differences in machines for example the insulation is different.
Visible flex to me should not be, something you pull on and apply some pressure should not visibly flex like the Duetto 2, QM 67 and to a degree on the Duetto 3. Other manufacturer's have tackled this problem a lot better.
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