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Another DB Quickmill
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Another DB...  
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pennywise
Senior Member


Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Washington State
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B, Saeco...
Grinder: Vario W
Drip: Keurig
Posted Fri Aug 2, 2013, 5:01pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Mort108 Said:

The new Baratza Forte seems to be quite a sweet grinder....I do not know if Chris is going to carry it, although it was the grinder used in the video on the Vetrano DB.

Posted August 2, 2013 link

It does look like a really nice one, doesn't it?  I have a fairly new Vario W that works well enough for me at the moment, but I'm sure I'll get upgraditis somewhere down the road.  Hopefully, it won't hit me hard for quite a while.
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,153
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri Aug 2, 2013, 5:59pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

I see concerns about filling the tank under cabs. This is solvable with a beer bong setup so the 60+ lb machine doesn't need to be moved, for me that would be twice a day with my Duetto. Furniture gliders make it easy to slide a heavy machine around but no reason to with a funnel and hose. Of coarse you don't want to overfill but that is why we have two hands, one to hold the beer bong and the other to feel for water level, lol.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 683
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Aug 2, 2013, 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

germantownrob Said:

I see concerns about filling the tank under cabs. This is solvable with a beer bong setup so the 60+ lb machine doesn't need to be moved, for me that would be twice a day with my Duetto. Furniture gliders make it easy to slide a heavy machine around but no reason to with a funnel and hose. Of coarse you don't want to overfill but that is why we have two hands, one to hold the beer bong and the other to feel for water level, lol.

Posted August 2, 2013 link

I am not sure I can even get the access door to the tank open with the unit under my cabinets. If I can, the funnel/hose would be the way to go. I am hoping that the two front legs are back under the machine enough that I can slide the machine to the edge of the counter and open the door. I had the same issue with a super auto I had, but it was much lighter and I could slide it forward enough on the cabinet to get the tank out.
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SylvainMtl
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Apr 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Montreal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Elektra Sixties A3
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly with...
Posted Fri Aug 2, 2013, 8:30pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Is the brass boiler nickel plated?  If not this could actually lead me to rethink my preorder.   Also ccc mentions that the vetrano 2b version has two copper boilers.  Guess a phone call will be required to clear things out.

Btw the review starts off with a diagram of the heating system showing an hx pre-heating which missled me for a while thinking that the QM machine did actually have a pre-heating stage.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 683
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Aug 2, 2013, 8:50pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

SylvainMtl Said:

Btw the review starts off with a diagram of the heating system showing an hx pre-heating which missled me for a while thinking that the QM machine did actually have a pre-heating stage.

Posted August 2, 2013 link

Huh? Are you looking at the correct review?

As for your concerns about brass brew boilers.... here is Daves comments from the review on why he suggested a brass boiler:

"For most people (because only 25% of the population are supertasters split 35% of women and 15% of men) I am sure it's not an issue. The amount of copper is also not dangerous to health and copper (brass) has antibacterial properties which helps in a boiler. The Verona has a good quality brass brew boiler (and the right type of brass), because I can't taste anything, hot or cold the water has no "taint" to me, coffees taste cleaner and better. Does this mean that copper brew boilers are no good?...No, they have been used for years, most people can't taste it or are not really aware of it..BUT, if you are one of the people who can, the Verona is the machine for you! To me the coffee tastes cleaner and sweeter. There are other boiler materials, but I do like brass....I believe good quality brass is still used in Dalla Corte, La Spaziale Vivaldi (mini Vivaldi), La Marzocco GS3. Although none of these machines are using the same type of conventional boiler design as QM for their brew boilers."
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Aug 2, 2013, 11:37pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DeanOK Said:

Huh? Are you looking at the correct review?

As for your concerns about brass brew boilers.... here is Daves comments from the review on why he suggested a brass boiler:

"For most people (because only 25% of the population are supertasters split 35% of women and 15% of men) I am sure it's not an issue. The amount of copper is also not dangerous to health and copper (brass) has antibacterial properties which helps in a boiler. The Verona has a good quality brass brew boiler (and the right type of brass), because I can't taste anything, hot or cold the water has no "taint" to me, coffees taste cleaner and better. Does this mean that copper brew boilers are no good?...No, they have been used for years, most people can't taste it or are not really aware of it..BUT, if you are one of the people who can, the Verona is the machine for you! To me the coffee tastes cleaner and sweeter. There are other boiler materials, but I do like brass....I believe good quality brass is still used in Dalla Corte, La Spaziale Vivaldi (mini Vivaldi), La Marzocco GS3. Although none of these machines are using the same type of conventional boiler design as QM for their brew boilers."

Posted August 2, 2013 link


I went  back and looked at the review  again and the drawing at the beginning of the review does show the water for the brew boiler being preheated by the steam boiler, if I am not mistaken.  It looks just like the Duetto MK IV except for the tank to plumbed in switch and the pump/motor setup.  It says, heat exchanger to preheat brew water.

CCS does say copper boilers on their description of the 2B.  I wonder if that is correct or if that is usually how the machines are made and they just put down the wrong information?
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,416
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 3:21am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

OK, I surrender, I tend to use a simplified diagram and I didn't think people really LOOKED at it. It was meant to be a Generic Dual boiler setup. I have gone back to my set of simplified diagrams in powerpoint and m,modified it to create one specially for the QM Verona DB. I have even added simplified for those who might say well that doesn't exactly go here and it's not exactly that shape etc..It's much more of an accurate reflection of the machine though. I was also rushed to finish it, although that's no excuse...I'm going to try and use it ;-) it may take them a day or 2 to update the review on their web site......gahh your all so observant!

The post above is correct in the statement that boilers on this type of machine are usually copper, but in this case, I couldn't taste anything from the brew boiler and this can only happen if a boiler is fairly well scaled inside (but then other tastes creep in), which was unlikely. Also the brew boiler looked like it was brass and not copper to me. .  I specifically asked Quick Mill what it was made of and they told me it was Brass, I actually asked this same question quite a few times and each time the answer was the same...brass. I can only put down what the manufacturers tell me, especially if I believe it's true, had I thought otherwise I would have said so in the review. I have even made a cup of tea from brew boiler water!
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 3:32am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

OK, I surrender, I tend to use a simplified diagram and I didn't think people really LOOKED at it. It was meant to be a Generic Dual boiler setup. I have gone back to my set of simplified diagrams in powerpoint and m,modified it to create one specially for the QM Verona DB. I have even added simplified for those who might say well that doesn't exactly go here and it's not exactly that shape etc..It's much more of an accurate reflection of the machine though. I was also rushed to finish it, although that's no excuse...I'm going to try and use it ;-) it may take them a day or 2 to update the review on their web site......gahh your all so observant!

The post above is correct in the statement that boilers on this type of machine are usually copper, but in this case, I couldn't taste anything from the brew boiler and this can only happen if a boiler is fairly well scaled inside (but then other tastes creep in), which was unlikely. Also the brew boiler looked like it was brass and not copper to me. .  I specifically asked Quick Mill what it was made of and they told me it was Brass, I actually asked this same question quite a few times and each time the answer was the same...brass. I can only put down what the manufacturers tell me, especially if I believe it's true, had I thought otherwise I would have said so in the review. I have even made a cup of tea from brew boiler water!

Posted August 3, 2013 link

Dave, I wasn't questioning your review about the brew boiler being made of brass.  I was just wondering if that was something only on the Verona and if the US version would have both boilers made of copper.

Would you think that Quick Mill would make the boilers different on the UK and US versions?  We aren't getting the same portafilters if the ones shown on the CCS video are the ones that come with the US version so I wondered if the boilers might be different too.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 683
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 4:01am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Dave:

Those boilers are better insulated than many that I have seen. That is a good thing to me because it will lower the operating costs for those that want to just leave the machine on all of the time. But I was wondering if you noticed if there was still enough heat escaping for the cup warmer? I personally don't use the cup warmer, but I assume most people do.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,416
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 4:22am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

JaniceAnn Said:

Dave, I wasn't questioning your review about the brew boiler being made of brass.  I was just wondering if that was something only on the Verona and if the US version would have both boilers made of copper.

Would you think that Quick Mill would make the boilers different on the UK and US versions?  We aren't getting the same portafilters if the ones shown on the CCS video are the ones that come with the US version so I wondered if the boilers might be different too.

Posted August 3, 2013 link

Oh don't worry I'm not taking it the wrong way and in fact was questioning myself. Even though I made a balls up on the diagram because I was rushing, it's a fairly minor thing and I put it there to generically inform. I was second guessing myself, because I had 2 versions remember, a pre production and a production model. I definitely, absolutely checked the boiler on the pre production model, but "might" have assumed the production model was the same because I couldn't taste anything. I checked my engineering archive for the machine and could not find any specific "scrape" photo tests for the production model), only for the pre-production. As I am very OCD about my reviewing, I simply had to take the production model apart and check to see if I had done scrape testing....I had, but had not bothered to photograph it. So I took the opportunity to take those photos, just so I would never have to worry I had forgotten to check again.

The US will definitely have the same brew boiler, because the owner himself told me they had 400 of them in stock. I have stressed on more than one occasion, both in writing and verbally, to never change to a copper brew boiler. Below are the scrape tests I did and the brew boiler is on the left and the steam on the right. I had to use slightly different lighting, because of the positioning of the boilers, the brew boiler being at the back and in shadow as I was looking at the machine, I have of course colour corrected for the light sources (evidenced by finger colour). Clearly the body of the left hand (brew) boiler is brass, both boilers will, of course, have brass ends. These metals do tend to discolour, hence the need to "scrape test them. Also at the brazed joints, the heat usually brings out a slight coppery colour of brass, because of course it has some copper in it (around 55-58%) and heating any alloys will change the colour, try it on 9ct gold!. Hence the scraping of the body as low down as I could without destroying the insulation.....probably given more information than was needed ;-).

P.S. More than enough heat for the cup warmer, remember the ends are open and from the top a fair bit of heat escapes....I may well add insulation to the top of my steam boiler (not the brew boiler, don't want that too well insulated), because I always warm my cups with hot water rather than leave em on the top of the machine.

Just thought I would add, many other machines on the market get no where near the scrutiny that this machine has had from me (and I've been really hard on this machine).....I have started reviews on a quite a few machines which failed at the engineering review stage and those reviews never saw the light of day, those engineering reviews are commissioned and  confidential. So if you see a review, you know I've given a machine a hard time, if you don't see a review it could mean I have not done it, or I did it, and it didn't go well! Of course any problems may have since been rectified in those machines and they are awaiting a second chance review

DavecUK: brew vs steam boiler.JPG
(Click for larger image)
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