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Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Quickmill...  
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ColinF
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Queenstown NZ
Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 5:10pm
Subject: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

My Quickmill Andreja Premium's heating element failed after several years of trouble free use.

I took it to a local espresso machine repairer I had no experience of ..not much choice in a small town.

They replaced the element and the overpressure gauge and gave the machine a full service including descale.This took several weeks.

The machine failed within days of its return and they then replaced the Gicar electronics saying I effectively had a new machine now and it would last years.

Less than a week after its return I noticed a continuous buzzing coming from the machine and they took it away again and replaced the pump which they said was now faulty.

On its return I noticed the new pump would stutter when under pressure.They have just taken it away for the 4th time to deal with this latest problem.

The repair guys claim these failures to be nothing to do with them or the way they serviced the machine.They claim its simply another new fault.

I have a mechanical background and have always been wary of technicians in any field who service machines by simply replacing components without due attention to underlying causes.

I feel needing to return a machine 3 times after a full service is unreasonable.

How would you guys approach the problem? I feel like I'm dealing with incompetence but am not sure how to deal with it effectively.
Thanks for any thoughts.
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chriscoffee
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Mar 2002
Posts: 246
Location: Albany
Expertise: Professional

Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013, 5:41pm
Subject: Re: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

I hear this all the time people think they would rather take their machine to someone local to rapair it becuase it is "more convenient" than sending it back to use. They pay way more to get it fixed if they even get it fixed at all and it takes much longer to to get it done. Just because a company can reapir commercial machines does not mean they have a clue how to repair pro sumer machines.

Chris Nachtrieb, Pres.
Chris' Coffee Service, Inc.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 715
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013, 6:05pm
Subject: Re: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

I understand why Colin took his machine to a local repair place. For one thing, he is in NZ. For him, the shipping cost and leadtime would be even longer than for us in the states if he has to ship it out of his country for repair. I too hate to send things off to get them fixed. I would rather work on them myself rather than deal with the uncertainty of shipping the machine off and wondering if it will get back to you freight damaged (and how long it will take to get it back). It is just too bad that it turned out to be a bad deal for Colin. I feel bad for his situation now, but I think the best thing he can do is find an authorized repair facility. I know CCS has a good reputation and would certainly be a good option for him.

One of the reasons that I chose to deal with CCS is because they seem to be eager to ship out parts if that was more convenient for the customer. I hope that if I ever have trouble with my machine, that they will indeed be eager to help me minimize the downtime by helping me obtain parts to repair the machine myself. I certainly understand that a lot of people do not want to repair their own machine but working on a espresso machine is not too much different than what I did for a living when I was younger. When I was younger, I worked on commercial restaurant equipment of all kinds, but I never actually worked on espresso machines as part of my job. However, I would not be afraid to work on one.
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ColinF
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Queenstown NZ
Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013, 2:05am
Subject: Re: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

Thanks Dean, you read the situation well.
I live in a small rural town a long way from major cities and where a lot of service recommendations are word of mouth.

The only Quickmill service agent I know of in the country is 1000 miles away and didn't respond to repeated calls.
I made the mistake of trusting someone local recommended by the guy I buy my beans from.He's now feeling embarrassed.

Chris I'd have been happy for you to do the repairs but the return freight costs from here in NZ plus repairs would cost more than the price of a new machine.

What I was hoping to hear from others on the forum was whether what I'm experiencing is to be expected from a 6 year old machine,  or whether my situation  could more likely be caused by clueless technicians as Chris has experienced.
I'm not looking for ammunition...just a bit more knowledge on what to expect from competent, knowledgeable espresso technicians/repairers.

I've been delighted with the Andreja Premium.This situation is in no way intended as any criticism of the machine.Its been my first prosumer espresso maker and had I known the potential for this situation to arise I would have sought advice on how to do the repairs myself.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,461
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013, 6:09am
Subject: Re: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

I think you should have posted in this forum after the very first repair...as subsequent problems, were probably not anything to do with the Gicar box!!
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Giampiero
Senior Member


Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 59
Location: Bangkok
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano
Grinder: Fiorenzato F5
Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013, 8:06am
Subject: Re: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

Colin,
could you issue more info about the symptoms of the machine after the first repairing?
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ColinF
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Queenstown NZ
Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013, 12:42pm
Subject: Re: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

I agree I should have posted after the first repairing....and reckon I should have posted right when the machine stopped heating...that was the 1st symptom.
No steam, no hot water but pump still operating.

After the 1st repair the machine worked for several days before exactly the same symptoms reappeared....no hot water or steam.

Thats when I was advised the Gicar needed to be replaced.The repairer told me these units only had a working life of 3-4 years so I'd been lucky to get so long out of one.
Is this true? Do the Gicars only last a few years before needing replacement?

After the machine was returned from this repair, I noticed a buzzing noise.Not as loud as the pump when it operates...more like an electrical relay malfunctioning but loud enough to be not normal.

I was told this was the pump failing and they installed a new one.

When I got it back, the 1st thing I noticed was how the new pump would stutter when under pressure.It would sound normal when running with nothing in the portafilter or when using the hot water wand but when extracting a shot it would quickly stop and start and hesitate although it would still reach pressure on the gauge.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,461
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jul 29, 2013, 2:24am
Subject: Re: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

ColinF Said:

I agree I should have posted after the first repairing....and reckon I should have posted right when the machine stopped heating...that was the 1st symptom.
No steam, no hot water but pump still operating.

After the 1st repair the machine worked for several days before exactly the same symptoms reappeared....no hot water or steam.

Thats when I was advised the Gicar needed to be replaced.The repairer told me these units only had a working life of 3-4 years so I'd been lucky to get so long out of one.
Is this true? Do the Gicars only last a few years before needing replacement?

After the machine was returned from this repair, I noticed a buzzing noise.Not as loud as the pump when it operates...more like an electrical relay malfunctioning but loud enough to be not normal.

I was told this was the pump failing and they installed a new one.

When I got it back, the 1st thing I noticed was how the new pump would stutter when under pressure.It would sound normal when running with nothing in the portafilter or when using the hot water wand but when extracting a shot it would quickly stop and start and hesitate although it would still reach pressure on the gauge.

Posted July 28, 2013 link

Well even more interesting....it could have been

Gicar failing and preventing it from heating, as a relay within the Gicar box controls that (actually a very simply and cheap fix to just replace that relay). Also the repairer is talking bollox about the life of Gicar boxes, they should last a very long time. I fully expect one to last 10-20 years and still be working. I see many machines with them 10 or 15 years old and working fine. Some do fail early and it can be bad luck or bad positioning within the machine. If they are talking about the machine lasting 4 years, again rubbish, you will get 20 years plus out of those machines, sure you may have to replace a few "maintenance items", but that's all. Buzzing from relays tends to be due to faulty shading coils, or other problems within the relay, depending on type e.e.g chatter. Ulka pumps also last around 7 years or longer and again it would be unlucky (although not impossible) to have one fail within 6 years. To have all of these things failing at once is more than unusual, it's extremely unlikely (bordering on impossible).

As for the pump that doesn't sound right....so now it really could be a fault in the "new" Gicar box (the buzzing could be the relay within), because that's certainly not normal. So far you have had a new heating element, new Gicar, new pump, new vacuum breaker (or some kind of valve, wasn't sure from your description)? It sounds incredible and very unlikely to me, that all this would have gone wrong with your 6 year old machine. I simply think they misdiagnosed the problem to start with and may have introduced new ones.

When you first suspected the heating element have failed a resistance test and earth leakage test should have been performed (by you as it only takes a few minutes), after the reset button had first been pressed, then the reset button itself should have been checked (a common cause of failure of the earlier Andrejas). If the reset button was at fault its a 5 minute fix costing $10 for parts.

"After the machine was returned from this repair, I noticed a buzzing noise.Not as loud as the pump when it operates...more like an electrical relay malfunctioning but loud enough to be not normal. I was told this was the pump failing and they installed a new one. When I got it back, the 1st thing I noticed was how the new pump would stutter when under pressure.It would sound normal when running with nothing in the portafilter or when using the hot water wand but when extracting a shot it would quickly stop and start and hesitate although it would still reach pressure on the gauge"

Interesting that your so called failing pump was replaced by one that doesn't seem to work properly. If there is a buzzing when the pump is not operating, then it isn't the pump is it. I also fail to see how they could be so confident in their diagnosis without checking whether somehow power was getting to the pump in some way to cause it to buzz (rather than pump, which would be difficult). More likely the pumps operation is being influenced by a failing relay...possible in that Gicar box they replaced. I would also be suspicious of whether they "really" replaced it, or put a used unit in? I say this because all these problems could have been originating from a faulty Gicar box. This could have made the heating element look like it had failed and the pump run intermittently whilst pulling a shot. The fault within the Gicar could have simply been a single failing relay!!

Instead it looks like they just started guessing a replacing parts and it must have cost you a lot of money. If you can, try and diagnose the fault yourself and fix it yourself, unless you can find repairers who don't have lassos and six guns.

To repair this yourself, you need to be very accurate with the behaviours of the machine, anything at all can point to the fault and buy yourself a cheap multimeter (easy enough to learn to use). Something like the product below and in a similar price range (not too cheap). Then post on here for advice. A video of the behaviour and sound can be very helpful.

Click Here (www.maplin.co.uk)
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Giampiero
Senior Member


Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 59
Location: Bangkok
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano
Grinder: Fiorenzato F5
Posted Mon Jul 29, 2013, 3:10am
Subject: Re: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

very difficult to "repair" a coffee machine by email, the most important is that the user must to communicate exactly the issue but sometime even for lack of time underestimates  particulars which can make the difference, i personally had a strange experience when a guy contacted me claiming a vibration pump failure or a pump gauge failure, after 3 day of video he confessed that was using stall coffee stored in the refrigerator.
The parts involved in the Colin case are multiple and i agree with DaveUk which is quite difficult ( like to win EL Gordo lottery) that all parts in a brief period has fault together, anyway somebody won the lottery so anythings can happen.
One more thing, all the new parts are original or has the same or very compatible data with the original one ( excluding the Gicar box)?
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ColinF
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Queenstown NZ
Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Jul 29, 2013, 3:16am
Subject: Re: Quickmill Andreja Premium repairs
 

Dave thanks heaps for your considered response.I appreciate the information you've provided.
The situation at present is they have not yet returned the machine.

Interestingly, my beans supplier had tested the element and thought it was ok but had doubts about his own tech abilities and suggested these guys as possibilities for more professional help.

When they initially and confidently told us the element was indeed faulty I had no reason to distrust them...but as you suggest, the fault may well have been simply a faulty Gicar relay or reset switch compounded by an ability to stretch the truth.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.My next conversation with them will be interesting.
We'll see where it goes from here and I'll keep you posted.
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