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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Looking for...  
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 662
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 11:26pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

So as I understand so far the best thing for me would be to buy the fresh green coffee beans right from the field and roast them at my own home and after roasting them grind them as soon as possible.

Posted July 24, 2013 link

Well, right now, I don't bother with roasting my own beans, at least not yet. Green beans are the cheapest to purchase and give you the lowest cost per cup overall, but roasting isn't for everyone.
When I buy roasted beans, I segregate out the beans into portions which will last me a week and put them in airtight containers and freeze them. Then, when I want to use them, I take the portion out of the freezer,
put it in the grinder hopper and let it defrost for about 8 hours. Then I grind the coffee as I need it. That's not too hard.

taomacuzuh Said:

it is just that I don't want to spend so much money and effort in it for a cup of coffee.

Posted July 24, 2013 link

I can understand that and it is intimidating. The rewards outweigh all the work that has to be done, otherwise it wouldn't be done. The less time and effort you want to spend making a cup of coffee,
the more compromises you will be making and thereby this reflects directly in your cup. There are many people who would love to sell you devices which will give you a passable cup of coffee just so
you can save time and I went down that road myself as well. I bought a k-cup machine and lived off of k-cups for a few years before deciding I wanted more. Oddly enough, single serve drip coffee
machines in Canada are not easy to come by and the ones I used in the past were mostly junk. I didn't want to make 4 cups of drip coffee in the morning, so k-cups seemed like a smart idea.

taomacuzuh Said:

I can understand many people want to do this to try to get the perfect espresso or cappuccino.  I can understand but I am, not at this level (yet).

Posted July 24, 2013 link

And that's fine. Nobody said you had to go out and buy $3k worth of gear to get started. For many of us, coffee was and is a journey. It always usually starts out with something very simple, like turkish coffee
or drip coffee, graduating from Folgers to grinding our own, then graduating to a Moka Pot, eventually ending up in the world of Epsresso. I started out with a $50 blade grinder a friend gave to me as a
gift and a $90 Mukka Express.

taomacuzuh Said:

So what would be the best for me (i am mainly interested in cappuccino)?

Posted July 24, 2013 link

Well, you seem very focused on Nespresso, but in all honesty, it is a dead end. You buy the cups and the machine and you make Nestle lots of money. If you like the results and you don't want to go any
further, that's fine and I understand that but this is a coffee forum full of hobbyists who are looking for that much more. It's great to have an upgrade path down the road, instead of putting your equipment
up on Craigslist, Kijiji or whatever classified ad BBS is out there to sell it all when you get tired of it.

taomacuzuh Said:

Gaggia Carezza or Classic with E.S.E. pads. (i don't have experience with this but seems like a nespresso kind of solution but you can choose many coffees)

Posted July 24, 2013 link

Mark Prince wrote a review about the Carezza about 10 years ago. It's here... Click here...
And the coffeegeek reviews on this machine are here: Click here...

Reviews on the Gaggia Classic can be found here: Click here...

IMHO, the Gaggia Classic has been around for a very long time now and is a tried and true machine which a lot of members on the board started out with. You can see for yourself
that it has a lot more metal on it, not as much plastic and will "Grow" with you over time as you decide to switch from ESE pods to pressurized portafilters using coffee grounds to unpressurized portafilters.

If I had the choice between the two machines, the Gaggia classic would be my choice. It also looks to be the more durable of the two machines.

taomacuzuh Said:

Gaggia Carezza or Classic with fresh grind coffee beans which I buy at the coffee bean shop (they grind it for me with professional machine so they can have the perfect grind settings for my machine).

Posted July 24, 2013 link

Well, you can use pre-ground coffee in a pressurized portafilter. I don't recommend doing that. Once you get it those coffee grounds home the grounds will have staled and this will negatively affect the taste in your
coffee and lead to disappointment. Even worse, coffee grounds which are a week old produce coffee which is "dead". (IMHO!) Month old coffee grounds will make you sick. This is from personal experience. Until
you get a grinder, even a cheap one, you should just consider sticking with ESE pods. You don't seem like you want to bother with coffee grounds right now. The upside to either one of the machines you mentioned is
that they have a panarello, so steaming the milk is a cinch for someone who isn't experienced. However, you won't be able to make latte art with it. (Probably not that important right now.)

Here's a great video on how to use pods with a Gaggia machine: Click here...

taomacuzuh Said:

A Rancillio silvia is almost twice as expensive here as a Gaggia classic (269 euro for a Gaggia classic vs 499 euro for a rancillio silvia).

Posted July 24, 2013 link

I also don't think it would be the right machine for you, judging from your previous posts. You have to do an ESE pod conversion on a Rancilio Silvia to get it to work with pods, but the Gaggia machines
will work with pods right out of the box and that's pretty much what you are looking for right now. The Silvia doesn't even come with pressurized portafilter baskets. (At least, mine didn't!)

taomacuzuh Said:

does not have the 3 way valve to get rid of the excess water as the classic does.

Posted July 24, 2013 link

IMHO, This is a big selling point because if you remove the portafilter while it is still under pressure, you'll get the infamous "Portafilter Sneeze" which will result in grounds and water all over you and your kitchen.
The cost savings you'll realize will go out the window as soon as you have to buy a new shirt. (Fortunately, I've never had it happen to me.)

taomacuzuh Said:

The carezza has a pressurized portafilter and the Classic does not, except when you use the E.S.E. pads then u need an extra portafilter option to pressurize the pads.

Posted July 24, 2013 link

The Gaggia Classic, at least to the best of my knowledge, already comes with everything you need to brew with ESE pods or pre-ground (Ugh) coffee.

I personally think that ESE pads are a much more environmentally responsible way of brewing coffee and offer lower cost per cup. As well, you also have the advantage that some really
well known independent roasters make their own ESE pods, so all of your money is going to the little guy instead of to Nestle.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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Ian
Moderator
Ian
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1,472
Location: England

Espresso: Euro2000,Rancilio
Grinder: Mazzer,La Cimbali
Vac Pot: Cona-->CraigA
Drip: Belgique for emergencies
Roaster: Primas with variac
Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013, 2:23am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

I hope I did not offend anybody.

Posted July 21, 2013 link

Not too many- only a few hundred million I should imagine.


Ian

 
www.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013, 7:43am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

Oke so I apologize to anyone who I may have offended or pissed of.  Sometimes I get carried away a little bit.
I hope we can all be friends again.

Posted July 24, 2013 link

really, that's the best you can do???


come one man, you totally generalized (dimwitted - maybe; naive - most certainly) and expressed complete disrespect of the entire population of the united states, and then said canadians are only slightly better.  You also recognized that a large part of this board consists of those two populations.  If you hold all of us in such low regard, why on earth did you have any interest in seeking our advice?  I don't get that logic at all.

In regards to your specific comments about pizza hut - complete garbage, I would never eat that cr@p, and totally agree with your comment "that ain't pizza, bro"  Heck, one of my colleagues (a doctor mind you, told me there were a bunch of "hamburger restaurants" by one of the hospitals we cover.  I asked, "what, you mean mcdonalds and burger king?" he said yeah, and I told him basically what I suspect you would have said..."those aren't restaurants".  Sorry I am full blooded american, born and raised in California, now live in Texas.  I don't eat fast food...none of it...I think it's complete cr@p.  Does that mean our entire country sucks?...heck no.  Our government has pretty much driven out large business through excessive taxes, fees, regulations, etc.  does that mean nothing good is made here?  Does that mean everything good made outside of the US was not designed here?...heck no.  I could list many examples, but to me it's not worth the ATP to move my fingers on the keyboard.

Hell yes, you offended me and many of my fellow north americans.  Your "sorry" isn't worth the few electrons it takes to display it on my screen.  If you want to really apologize, great...otherwise, have a nice life.

.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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DanoM
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 386
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega, '84 La...
Grinder: Compak K10, Kludge grinder,...
Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013, 7:52am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Sounds like you are leaning towards a POD machine so get the Nespresso machine, you can make it work if you want to.  It's not great or even real "espresso", but it's definitely drinkable and somewhat enjoyable if you setup things properly I think.

First of all you need to change the doses on the machine in my opinion.  The single button should be set for 25ml of extraction per POD, that's nearly a ristretto size.  If you drink lungo then you can tune that button however you like, I don't use it.

Next, the Nespresso pod is okay, but you can do better yourself:
  1.  Get a good grinder.  I like the Baratza Vario, but any good espresso grinder will do.
  2.  Get refillable Nespresso PODs.  On eBay I got emoHome 4th generation pods.  They work well for me.
  3.  Get some freshly roasted coffee, pick it with your nose - whatever smells best.  Then look it over.  If it meets what you want then get 1/2 pound/200g
  4.  Grind about 20g of coffee espresso fine, dump into a square tub like a food storage container.  Scoop the emoHome pod into the coffee, compressing only slightly just until coffee starts to stick and mound over the top of the pod.  Sweep all extra coffee off the pod, don't compress it into the pod or it will be too compacted.  Flip over the cap and you're ready to test.
  5.  Fire up the Nespresso machine, when up to heat run at least 2 single buttons or 1 lungo through the machine of just water to make sure it's warmed up throughout.
  6.  Drop in your pod, hit the single button and see what happens.

Tuning your grind and pack:
You'll probably choke the machine a few times, I know I do.  I try to time my extractions to be around 15-20 seconds.  Grinding finer, coarser, and packing all make a difference, so you'll have to experiment.  When first dialing this in be prepared to sample quite a few coffee's to figure it out the first time.

You can also start with a small can of medium roast, pre-ground Illy if you want a benchmark.  Not the best coffee, but it's a start.  I generally grind finer than Illy, and with the proper packing I can make a decent extraction.

With better coffee on hand you can easily beat the quality of the standard Nespresso pods in my opinion.  You can store filled pods in a plastic storage container up to 1 week - yeah the rules about fresh coffee, fresh grind, and the like don't completely apply to the Nespresso pressurized portafilter system.  Sometimes "aged" ground coffee 1-2 days tastes a little better than really fresh - I'm sure that has to do with beans, pressurization, volatile flavors and a myriad of issues.

NOW, AFTER SPELLING ALL THAT OUT FOR YOU....
Once you've gone to the trouble of doing all that.  Getting all that equipment.  Learning all those techniques.  Spending all that money...
You could have already been making real espresso with a real machine - well, almost.  At least you would have proven to yourself that you are detail oriented enough to handle a real espresso machine, but now you've put money into the Nespresso that you won't get back out.

I have a Nespresso here in the house, and my wife uses it daily.  I haven't been filling pods lately, because I'm trying to force her to use the Nespresso pods before they 'expire'...  She prefers my pods to theirs.  Mine take much longer to extract than the Nespresso ones, so that probably gives me much more flavor from the beans.  Mine don't "foam" like Nespresso pods do, but I do get "crema" from my pods.

As far as how much coffee Nespresso puts in their pods I saw some numbers you posted earlier and I think they are wrong.  Nespresso themselves shows the weight of the pods maxing out at 6.5g or 65g/10 pods.  Your friend likely weighed including the pods?  I have opened up the fresh, unused pods for every variety I had, about 10 varieties, and all were in the 5.0-6.5g range.


I started with Nespresso, moved on to making my own pods, then getting a good grinder, then a cheap espresso machine, then a Nuova Simonelli Oscar and now a La Pavoni lever too.  It's an obsession.

Best of luck
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Bitches_Brew
Senior Member
Bitches_Brew
Joined: 4 Feb 2009
Posts: 775
Location: indiana
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: yes
Grinder: yes
Vac Pot: no
Drip: no
Roaster: yes
Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013, 6:22am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

How is it that this guy still has access to this forum? Rude, arrogant, and profane.

i think the more appropriate question would be..... why is this thread not locked?

i haven't visited this place much recently, but things have definitely gone down hill. :( the moderation used to be better along with site content. (e.g. there are still christmas articles on the front page!)

did the people that run this site just give up?

 
"You can write down how to make the perfect cup of coffee. But to make it really good, you have to play something fictional, you have to dress up, you have to think, This is the most important thing."
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frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,427
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013, 7:19am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Bitches_Brew Said:

i think the more appropriate question would be..... why is this thread not locked?

i haven't visited this place much recently, but things have definitely gone down hill. :( the moderation used to be better along with site content. (e.g. there are still christmas articles on the front page!)

did the people that run this site just give up?

Posted July 27, 2013 link

I expressed a similar sentiment in another thread after one poster deleted all the text in a number of their own posts in that same thread, making the thread a ridiculous mess. I was admittedly a bit over the top in stating that the person should be dealt with severely and a bit more than hinted that the mods were not doing their job. I was chastised for my comments. Since then I had seen a number of "Fake passport" posts that stayed in the forums for over a day before they were deleted. There is a fine line between too little and too much moderation, but I think it is best to err just a bit on the side of too much.

I know moderation is a difficult job. I was a mod on another forum for a while, but quit my moderating job and left the forum because of the low standards which allowed anyone paying for advertising on the forum to make unfounded commercial claims so long as it was in the "commercial posting" area. It was one "Ganoderm Healthy Coffee" statement too many for me that chased me out.

Right at the bottom of this very page it states, "No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards."
I agree with you that this thread should have been locked quite some time ago, and the person making the profanity-laced post should be asked to go play in some other person's yard.

 
Visit My Website
www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013, 4:32pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

I'd love to meet him one day, put one of my other skill sets to use - something I've become very, very proficient in over the past 30 years.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013, 8:34pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

yeah, that is stupid...the Jedi mind trick would never work on you.

.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,036
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013, 9:35pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

*Punt*

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013, 6:45am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Really? Are you sure about that? So...what...it was all fer nuthin?

Are we havin fun yet?

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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