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Looking for advice on new machine.
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Looking for...  
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Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 658
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 9:33pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

To make things a bit clearer, we don't freeze grounds, we freeze whole beans, and then only after squeezing the air out of the bag.
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taomacuzuh
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 16
Location: China or Nethetlands
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 10:14pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

]Will something like tis work to store grinded coffee?
Click Here (cdn.debijenkorf.nl)

It is storage container with vacuum pump to get all the air out.  It is from vaccuvin.
Anyone have any idea how long the grounds will stay oke in something like that?
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 662
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

I wonder if Illy would be any good.  Heard some good things about it.

Posted July 20, 2013 link

I'd say this is probably the wrong forum to ask about Illy. You'd be better posting that question to the general espresso or general coffee forum as I don't really
have an opinions on Illy pods or standardized ESE pods.

BTW, here's a good video demonstrating what ESE pods are and how to brew with them: Click here

Some restaurant owners who do own an espresso machine, but don't want to bother with a grinder typically purchase ESE pods. They typically are about 7
grams of coffee and are fairly comparable in price to Nespresso pods. Wether or not they're higher quality than Nespresso, I have no idea.

taomacuzuh Said:

Nespresso  Arpeggio cups makes one of the best cappuccinos I have ever tasted in my whole life.

Posted July 20, 2013 link

Well, there's an old saying which says, "You ain't heard nuthin' yet!". I guess the only way to describe it is that you are talking about what a great picture
your television has, but it is only in Black and White, when the rest of the people on this board bought their colour TV's ages ago.

taomacuzuh Said:

I am actually surprised that people freeze the beans or ground since I thought moisture is the enemy.

Posted July 20, 2013 link

I should clarify this. Mark's right, we never store grounds. When we freeze beans, we only freeze them once and only in airtight containers so that moisture
and other smells from other things in the freezer can't get into the coffee. Once they are thawed out, they are used once and never refrozen.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 662
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 10:32pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

It is storage container with vacuum pump to get all the air out.  It is from vaccuvin. Anyone have any idea how long the grounds will stay oke in something like that?

Posted July 20, 2013 link

For espresso use? 15 minutes.

For drip coffee use? Hard to say. Any hand-pump machine will not completely remove all of the air from the container, preventing oxidization..

One of the best ways to prevent an apple from oxidizing is not to slice it in half. Same thing goes for coffee beans.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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EndTwo
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 89
Location: Denmark
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Apscaso uno steel prof
Grinder: Mazzer Major DR + Mahlkönig...
Drip: french press, ceramic v60...
Roaster: skillet
Posted Sun Jul 21, 2013, 1:04am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Buckley Said:

I don't think this issue was addressed.  Freezers are an American thing.  Electricity is expensive in Europe and I do not see so many freezers.  Am I correct?

Posted July 20, 2013 link

Yeah... we live in caves and are afraid of fire to... Gasoline and food is expensive to, but since none of os have cars or stomachs, that doesnt really matter either... Seriously? You are sincerely serious?
Im baffled. Truely shocked.

Well to give a more polite answer, I dont know how much you guys pay for electricity over there, but I dont think of it as a serious budgetposting. Freezers is quite common here (so is cars and food, and just in case, we dont live in caves, just regular housing, and we eat - okay, that wasnt part of the polite answer im just... what do you expect? europe isnt a third world country. It isnt by the way "a" country but a lot of countries). Well, back on track, sorta, I believe we can afford more, because we earn more money, not in the top earnings but in average/bottom. Whereas for example workers unions in the US are (in my prejudiced believe) connected with mafia, they are in big parts of EU just a (completly legal) part of the system making better minimumwages for average joe.

Sorry for the extreme OT, it had to be addressed.

Anyways, back on topic, Tao, you said that youve owned a moka pot, but didnt like the inconsistency, due to amount of coffee and water. Im not sure there is a better suitable sollution, than capsules. Why? Well consisdent espresso making with an entry level machine (SBDU) will be next to impossible. I can think of the following factors, that Ive experinced changening the result since I started out a couple of months ago:
- Type of coffee, switch of roast or origin will need you to dial in the grinder.
- Roast date, even though freshly roasted beans is in the grinder, and the grinder has been dialed in, the beans change, so the grinder setting may change and need a bit of fiddeling.
- Tempreturem, warm up time, did you turn on the machine half an hour or and hour and a half ago? Do you temp surf?
- Amount of grinded coffee, even with a timed grinder as the Vario Ive been told/been able to see that the output is different if the bean is changed.
- Amount of brewed coffee, youd need something to messure the output, did you get it in the right time? How does it taste? Did it suddenly start blonding, so you had to stop early?
- Then there is the taste issue, I like my espresso with a small taste of acid, or a little sour. Was it too much? And then even if all the above is fine, if the taste isnt, then you start fiddeling again.

I didnt start out with those issues, they just kinda emerged. I was certain that stale coffee and an espressomachine could do me a fine cappochino every day, and that would be fine. Now Im roasting my own beans, trying to control every factor. It isnt just Brewing coffee, its a hobby. And thats fine. I just dont think youd like all the time consuming fiddeling, if you didnt like the moka pot variables...

Best of luck with whatever you do.
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taomacuzuh
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 16
Location: China or Nethetlands
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sun Jul 21, 2013, 2:29am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

I am now 39 years old.  I cannot remember that I never had a freezer, even when i was a kid we had refridgerator and freezer.  We also had electric light, toilets and showers, cars, television, etc...

Lmfao here.In many ways in Europe we are more sophisticated then in the USA.   My friend from America he wanted to take me to the pizza hut here in china.  I refused.  I say to him that is not pizza Bro, I don't eat that.  Also he thinks Oreo's and Donuts are the best thing in the world.  O my god what a sad country the USA must be if that is the best they can come up with.

I have been in Italy ate real good pizza there had real good cappuccino there.  Don't mok me with your nespresso cannot be good cappuccino comments.
I have tasted both Real Italian Cappuccino and also the Nespresso.  And i am quite sure that you did not taste the nespresso because you are already biased like many coffee snobs.  I am not saying all the nespresso cups are good because some are quite terrible but some are really really tasty (and I guess that is the same with your coffe amchine at home, put some disgusting grind in it and something disgusting comes out of it, but a good blend in it and you get good espresso).  

I now some are from Canada, but to me is just a bit better then usa, but not that much.  All these coffee machine you guys are buying are build in Europe because you don't have a clue how to to that over there.  Is not your fault you just don't know any better.

Everything that is good comes from Europe.  Best cookies, best pies, best cars, best pizza's best pastas.  And the EU does NOT like Monsanto and refuses their gmo plans here, that is the other good thing about europe.

But I think I just go with nespresso since that is the only solution that keeps my coffee grind fresh for several months and it is sort of affordable and even taste good (if you buy the good capsules with it).  

I hope I did not offend anybody.  I have been in the USA, I have been in Canada.  I have seen it with my own eyes.  Most of you just comment on what they hear or read somewhere and talk like they know it all.  Anyway i have to drink the coffee the way I like it,  so if I like it that is the most important thing.
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 662
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sun Jul 21, 2013, 3:18am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

Don't mok me with your nespresso cannot be good cappuccino comments.

Posted July 21, 2013 link

Well, I actually tried out a Nespresso machine and made myself a cappuccino with it. I think using the Aeroccino is a pain in comparison to just using a steam wand, but that's just IMHO.

It made passable coffee. IMHO, not nearly as good as what I could make at home, but it was passable. If what I make at home would be considered A+, this was more like a C.

IMHO, taste is very subjective and I believe quite firmly that I can make a better cappuccino than a Nespresso and Aeroccino machine. Now, for straight shots, hard to say since I only just had a cappuccino,
which is what I usually drink anyway.  I don't think I'm unfairly biased against these machines, this is all personal opinion.

I guess we can't change your mind and for that I completely understand. Coffee is a journey. Like I said, when you are ready to take the next step up from a Nespresso machine, we'll be here.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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Rhinoevans
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 179
Location: Las Vegas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale S1, Starbucks...
Grinder: Rocky DL
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: N/A
Roaster: N/A
Posted Sun Jul 21, 2013, 3:50am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

I am now 39 years old.  I cannot remember that I never had a freezer, even when i was a kid we had refridgerator and freezer.  We also had electric light, toilets and showers, cars, television, etc...

Lmfao here.In many ways in Europe we are more sophisticated then in the USA.   My friend from America he wanted to take me to the pizza hut here in china.  I refused.  I say to him that is not pizza Bro, I don't eat that.  Also he thinks Oreo's and Donuts are the best thing in the world.  O my god what a sad country the USA must be if that is the best they can come up with.

I have been in Italy ate real good pizza there had real good cappuccino there.  Don't mok me with your nespresso cannot be good cappuccino comments.
I have tasted both Real Italian Cappuccino and also the Nespresso.  And i am quite sure that you did not taste the nespresso because you are already biased like many coffee snobs.  I am not saying all the nespresso cups are good because some are quite terrible but some are really really tasty (and I guess that is the same with your coffe amchine at home, put some disgusting grind in it and something disgusting comes out of it, but a good blend in it and you get good espresso).  

I now some are from Canada, but to me is just a bit better then usa, but not that much.  All these coffee machine you guys are buying are build in Europe because you don't have a clue how to to that over there.  Is not your fault you just don't know any better.

Everything that is good comes from Europe.  Best cookies, best pies, best cars, best pizza's best pastas.  And the EU does NOT like Monsanto and refuses their gmo plans here, that is the other good thing about europe.

But I think I just go with nespresso since that is the only solution that keeps my coffee grind fresh for several months and it is sort of affordable and even taste good (if you buy the good capsules with it).  

I hope I did not offend anybody.  I have been in the USA, I have been in Canada.  I have seen it with my own eyes.  Most of you just comment on what they hear or read somewhere and talk like they know it all.  Anyway i have to drink the coffee the way I like it,  so if I like it that is the most important thing.

Posted July 21, 2013 link

WOW. Since you know so much, not even sure why you even ask a Question, that you already had the answer.  Why ask our opinion, since it not our fault, we just dont know any better!
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taomacuzuh
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 16
Location: China or Nethetlands
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sun Jul 21, 2013, 3:54am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

I guess i pissed somebody off after all....

I am thinking now that maybe the Espresso machine with ESE serving could be something to go for to instead of nespresso.
Maybe Gaggia Carezza Deluxe.

If people would have told me about ESE servings from the get go this topic would be a whole lot shorter.
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EndTwo
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 89
Location: Denmark
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Apscaso uno steel prof
Grinder: Mazzer Major DR + Mahlkönig...
Drip: french press, ceramic v60...
Roaster: skillet
Posted Sun Jul 21, 2013, 6:28am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

I guess i pissed somebody off after all....

I am thinking now that maybe the Espresso machine with ESE serving could be something to go for to instead of nespresso.
Maybe Gaggia Carezza Deluxe.

If people would have told me about ESE servings from the get go this topic would be a whole lot shorter.

Posted July 21, 2013 link

Two things:
First off, of course you pissed someone, and Im suprised there hasnt been more responses yet. You basicly said that all that is good i European and alle American produced is crap. I disagree. It is in my opinion the view of the simplewitted (no offence). Its just to black and white...

Second, I don't know if the ESE pods are better than the capsules. I dont think anyone herehad mentioned them, as you probably dont find many here, using them. Thing is, as with the capsules, they are preground, stale coffee. They can be as well vacuum sealed and airtight as a spaceship. Trouble is that its food and food go bad over time. And for starters those capsules/pods have to be manufactored, how long does it take from the grinding to the sealing? Next how long does it take from the sealing to the arrival at the consumer? Of course it is drinkable, its just a matter of standards. Ive just been a trip to Spain, their water contains chlorine, we could only get instant coffee and non-fresh uht milk. Tasted funny, but vacation time isnt time for great coffee... So it was passable. At home I would have spat it back out. The coffee is stale. That doesnt mean that it cant be drunk. It just means that all the subtle flavors are more or less gone.
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