Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Prosumer machines: comparison and suggestions
Support Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids is a non profit charity working with farming communities around the world. Donate today!
www.coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Prosumer...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 6 last page next page
Author Messages
emil3m
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 106
Location: New York
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Vario
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 6:12pm
Subject: Prosumer machines: comparison and suggestions
 

Assuming that the GS/3 is an overkill, please help me to zero in on a different prosumer.
I really appreciate all the help I received thus far. Below you will find a comparison chart which will be regularly updated.

Suggestions to improving the chart are welcome--I want to make it as helpful as possible.

The data was collected from about 8 sites. Not every site listed every specification. There may be inconsistencies--please point them out!

Can someone explain how can I embed images or "attach" more than one file? Until then, click here for the bottom portion of the chart.

emil3m: Prosumers - v1 - a.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
Currently in love with Hayes Valley by Blue Bottle--locally roasted next to my house in Brooklyn
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tglodjo
Senior Member
tglodjo
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Jackson, TN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Wave, V60, Chemex, Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 7:42pm
Subject: Re: Lineup of 4 prosumer machines:
 

Quick Mill Vetrano DB - See CG thread, "another Quick Mill DB." Looks to be getting some crazy anticipation, plus some high praise from some who are about to publish reviews.

La Spaziale Vivaldi II - you can either get the plumbable version or a reservoir version dubbed the "mini." Also a newer electronics-heavy version called the Dream.

Also, are you considering any lever machines? I don't know much about them, but I know they're quite popular, and many of the, are in this class of prosumer machines.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 662
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 2:00am
Subject: Re: Lineup of 4 prosumer machines:
 

emil3m Said:

Nuova Simonelli Musica - HX

Posted July 5, 2013 link

Either comes in a tanked or plumbed version, not switchable, at least not to the best of my knowledge. The tanked versions have an electronic
pre-infusion I believe, which ramps up pressure gradually. (Someone may want to correct me on this) I don't believe this machine meets your
requirements, so I think it is out of the running. (Not that it isn't a bad machine in its own right.)

emil3m Said:

Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0 - DB

Posted July 5, 2013 link

The Duetto can switch between tanked and plumbed in operation with just a simple flip of a lever. Since it has an E61 group, it can pre-infuse.
It can pre-infuse on tank by using the pressure from the steam boiler when on tank mode. It will not pre-infuse on tank operation if the steam
boiler is unpressurized! Of course, on plumbed in operation, it can pre-infuse all the time.

emil3m Said:

Vibiemme Double Domobar - DB

Posted July 5, 2013 link

I don't know much about this machine, but I understand it is direct competition to the Duetto feature-wise. Also is switchable between tanked
and plumbed in operation.

emil3m Said:

Rocket R58 V2 - DB

Posted July 5, 2013 link

Also direct competition to the Vibiemme and the Izzo. It uses a solenoid to switch between tank and plumbed in operation.

I don't honestly know if the Vibiemme and the Rocket can preinfuse on tanked operation as long as the steam boiler is pressurized, like the Izzo.
However, any E61 group machine can pre-infuse on plumbed in operation. (Think of it as using your own water pressure to brew the coffee,
before using the pump to boost the pressure.)

Any one of these three machines should meet your needs and perform very well for many years with proper maintenance. I only know about the
Izzo machine, although, I'm sure there are also a lot of happy Vibiemme owners on this forum as well! I think Rocket is still cutting their teeth on
the R58, like anything new, they're still ironing small bugs out of the design. They're already on v2 with some minor improvements.

If I to choose between any of these machines and I couldn't pick the Izzo machine, I'd go with the Vibiemme, unless you really like to the looks of
the Rocket R58 and don't mind having an external PID control.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
back to top
 View Profile Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,051
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 2:26am
Subject: Re: Lineup of 4 prosumer machines:
 

I'd like to add two HX machines with rotary pumps, that can be switched from tank to plumbing:
  • the Rocket Espresso Cellini (or Giotto) Evolutione, and
  • the ECM Elektronika Profi II, which also offers volumetric brewing.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 8:13am
Subject: Re: Lineup of 4 prosumer machines:
 

I hope you don't take this wrong, but I think it's time for you to ask some more pointed questions. Maybe you need to read more...That I don't know, but you've been asking for machine recommendations ad nauseum...and gotten them. What you haven't done (so it seems), is ask about particular features of some of the machines. The specs are widely available and if you we're to look them up, then see what features are and aren't on each machine or to what extent they exist (boiler size for instance), you might be able to get some better input from people who own them or know about them. There are guides around that help one understand the way these machines operate and/or pluses and minuses of many of the features.

Sorry if this sounds wrong, but truly I'm just trying to help. I get the feeling you are ready to move on to the next phase of making some detailed machine comparisons and gathering any advice/info that will help you understand what sets each of them apart from the others. That will really help you decide what seems important to you and what isn't.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emil3m
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 106
Location: New York
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Vario
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 8:59am
Subject: Re: Lineup of 4 prosumer machines:
 

emradguy Said:

Sorry if this sounds wrong, but truly I'm just trying to help. I get the feeling you are ready to move on to the next phase of making some detailed machine comparisons and gathering any advice/info that will help you understand what sets each of them apart from the others. That will really help you decide what seems important to you and what isn't.

Posted July 6, 2013 link

I appreciate the help. It may not be obvious, but as much as I was asking the 6 pages in the previous thread I got just a few suggestions. Most people were concentrated on talking about GS/3. I figured it is probably the title. So since the GS/3 was discussed "ad nauseum," I created this thread.

My very basic requirements are on top. Now, thanks to excellent suggestions, I am compiling an excel sheet that will be extremely detailed. I will editing it, updating it, posting it in the first post. So this helps not only me, but others as well.

It is very hard for me to be more specific other than the requirements I posted, because I don't even understand how different pre-infusion methods work and what are the advantages disadvantages of each.

When I post the excel sheet, will it be easier for people to discuss pluses/minuses?

Lastly, thank you for all those who contributed in both threads--I will certainly try to repay the community by creating this comparison.

 
Currently in love with Hayes Valley by Blue Bottle--locally roasted next to my house in Brooklyn
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:33am
Subject: Re: Lineup of 4 prosumer machines:
 

great plan, so you are already working on what I suggested...in an even more thorough fashion than I envisioned.  EXCELLENT!

I suspect the spreadsheet will help.

.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
russel
Senior Member
russel
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 450
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Conti Princess 2grp, GS/3...
Grinder: Super Caimanos x2, Forte BG,...
Drip: V60, Kalita Wave, Clever,...
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 11:10am
Subject: Re: Lineup of 4 prosumer machines:
 

emil3m Said:

I am compiling an excel sheet that will be extremely detailed.

Posted July 6, 2013 link

That makes me smile.  

Once you've finished your spreadsheet you should see if you can find a way to meet the machines in person.  Maybe the Joe Pro Shop has some...?  Maybe there are some welcoming local CG members?  Making espresso is ultimately about taste, which is tied up in emotional associations etc.  These days I evaluate all of my coffee purchases based on how much I enjoy the experience of using them.  I like joystick steam valves OK, but still prefer the feel of big LM knobs.  I like extra tall legs so that I can tuck stuff under the machine and keep things extra clean.  Not all drip tray grates are created equal.  I really enjoy the shape of one particular custom wood PF handle more than the others I have...it's sort of a more graceful and shapely Elektra style and I look forward to every opportunity to use it.  I have some cups that I like a lot more than others.  I certainly have favorite tampers.

Whatever you buy, it sounds like you have the means to accessorize, and I would let loose on the customizations.  Espresso is about pleasure and feeling good more than it's about performance metrics.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
emil3m
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 106
Location: New York
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Vario
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 1:03pm
Subject: Re: Lineup of 4 prosumer machines:
 

<ORIGINAL POST UPDATED>

As promised. Wanted to start off with 4 machines just to get a feel regarding the chart. Once I get the hang of what people want to see (missing features?), I can add more machines.

Can someone please explain how pre-infusion works on these machines? Particularly when not plumbed-in.
Also, if users are particularly familiar with that or another machine, please elaborate on some of the features as they are currently listed in their very basic senses.

qualin Said:

The Duetto can switch between tanked and plumbed in operation with just a simple flip of a lever. Since it has an E61 group, it can pre-infuse.
It can pre-infuse on tank by using the pressure from the steam boiler when on tank mode. It will not pre-infuse on tank operation if the steam
boiler is unpressurized! Of course, on plumbed in operation, it can pre-infuse all the time.

Posted July 6, 2013 link

Thank you for explaining the Duetto--definitely a contender! Is the cup clearance really as low as listed? Is the pre-infusion at 3 bars?

 
Currently in love with Hayes Valley by Blue Bottle--locally roasted next to my house in Brooklyn
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emil3m
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 106
Location: New York
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Vario
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Lineup of 4 prosumer machines:
 

<ORIGINAL POST UPDATED>

tglodjo Said:

Quick Mill Vetrano DB - See CG thread, "another Quick Mill DB." Looks to be getting some crazy anticipation, plus some high praise from some who are about to publish reviews.

La Spaziale Vivaldi II - you can either get the plumbable version or a reservoir version dubbed the "mini." Also a newer electronics-heavy version called the Dream.

Also, are you considering any lever machines? I don't know much about them, but I know they're quite popular, and many of the, are in this class of prosumer machines.

Posted July 5, 2013 link

Will add the Quick Mill soon.
I'll add the La Spaziale if people really want. I have a few 58mm tamper and one of them I hold dear--the 53mm on that machine is a deal-breaker.

At this point, not considering levers (not advanced enough).

 
Currently in love with Hayes Valley by Blue Bottle--locally roasted next to my house in Brooklyn
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 6 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Prosumer...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Home Espresso Machines
Watch videos with Gail & Kat, Rocket, Jura Capresso, Saeco, Rancilio, Quick Mill, Nespresso
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.473598003387)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+