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GS/3 v Speedster
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > GS/3 v Speedster  
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 649
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 2:13pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

emil3m Said:

 I know this: my shots are better when the CC1 is set to pre-brew for 2sec, pause for 2sec, and then pull as opposed to just pull right away. The CC1 certainly does not pre-brew at 3 bars. My online reading seems to suggest that pre-infusion at lower pressure than the actual pull is better--is that a myth?

Posted July 5, 2013 link

I noticed in one of your older threads that you were grinding at 3G with your Vario while using the CC1. I know with my Vario W (calibrated by the manual) grinding at  3G setting would pour gushers with my CC1 now that I have the brew pressure up.

What do you think of the quality of the shots you are getting with your CC1? Are you still grinding at 3G? Is there some quality issue that is driving you to spend over 6K or is it just convenience? You were asking me in another thread about checking your brew pressure on the CC1. Do you suspect there is an issue with brew pressure?
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emil3m
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 103
Location: New York
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Vario
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 2:29pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

DeanOK Said:

I noticed in one of your older threads that you were grinding at 3G with your Vario while using the CC1. I know with my Vario W (calibrated by the manual) grinding at  3G setting would pour gushers with my CC1 now that I have the brew pressure up.

What do you think of the quality of the shots you are getting with your CC1? Are you still grinding at 3G? Is there some quality issue that is driving you to spend over 6K or is it just convenience? You were asking me in another thread about checking your brew pressure on the CC1. Do you suspect there is an issue with brew pressure?

Posted July 5, 2013 link

Very fair question!
My primary goal of upgrading is increasing consistency and frequency of good shots.
Tek has phrased it well above: "I can tell you that after changing countless machines after some point what it comes down to is how often you get exceptional shot of espresso from machine and grinder combination and how much you have to work at it. On low end, your frequency of exceptional shots is low and work rate is high. On high-end your frequency is high and work rate is low, given competent technique which is assumed."

You see, my work is very demanding. My morning routine also includes gym. I do not have to tell you how long it takes to make a perfect 6oz capp with a beautiful rosetta :) you can begin to see that time is of the essence. How many times I drank a 6oz capp that does not taste like rainbows and unicorns simply because I had no time to make another? Too many! :)

Second reason is minor and plugs into the first. Dual Boiler is more likely to afford me the luxury of making another drink.

Lastly, the pressure gauge I was asking you about is purely to satisfy my curiosity. The CC1 does sound like it is struggling more than some of its big brothers and I was just curious to explore if the pressure output is as advertised.

Thoughts/constructive criticism are welcome!

 
Currently in love with Hayes Valley by Blue Bottle--locally roasted next to my house in Brooklyn
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,962
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 2:38pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

BST forum...there you go, drive up to Ontario and get yourself a formerly loved GS/3 for 3.5k.

.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 649
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 2:49pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

emil3m Said:

 The CC1 does sound like it is struggling more than some of its big brothers and I was just curious to explore if the pressure output is as advertised.

Posted July 5, 2013 link

Vib pumps are noisy in general. The biggest reason I would like to have a QM 2B is to get the rotary pump. Even though I have enough disposable income to get a high end machine, 6 to 8K for new machines is someplace I won't go.  If I can get the CC1 dialed in, I will probably just live with this machine for a while yet. If you are grinding at macro 1 and then dialing in your micro adjustment while using a firm 30 lb tamp, your pressure is probably reasonably close. If you're on Macro 3 and you have an even 30 lb tamp, I would say to check the pressure.

I am disappointed to find so many people in this thread that have a low opinion of the Vario W. I really thought I had bought a decent grinder. with that said, it is taking me forever to find my sweet spot because, as a general rule, I only make 1 shot a day. In a busy week, I may only make 4 for the entire week. When I consider that most professional baristas make hundreds of shots per day, and then a volumetric machine still helps them, I figure it would help someone like me... maybe not.  I know that just because you have a high end machine doesn't mean you will make great shots. There is a coffee shop in my town (I live in a small rural area) that has a LM multigroup machine and they buy fresh beans from a local reputed roaster and I have poured their espresso drinks on the ground... so there 'ya go.
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tek
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 180
Location: WA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Changes daily
Grinder: Kafa-Tek Monolith
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 3:13pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

DeanOK Said:

I am disappointed to find so many people in this thread that have a low opinion of the Vario W. I really thought I had bought a decent grinder. with that said, it is taking me forever to find my sweet spot because, as a general rule, I only make 1 shot a day. In a busy week, I may only make 4 for the entire week. When I consider that most professional baristas make hundreds of shots per day, and then a volumetric machine still helps them, I figure it would help someone like me... maybe not.  I know that just because you have a high end machine doesn't mean you will make great shots. There is a coffee shop in my town (I live in a small rural area) that has a LM multigroup machine and they buy fresh beans from a local reputed roaster and I have poured their espresso drinks on the ground... so there 'ya go.

Posted July 5, 2013 link

Vario W is really good grinder at its price point, I have one on my bench right now. Achilles heel of all Baratza grinders is the grind adjustment mechanism. Its simply not consistent and often unpredictable. The best tip I can give you is to always run grinder when making grind adjustments whether you make them to grind finer or coarser even one single notch on fine side. This will help you a lot.

I think that Vario W automatic grind by weight is absolutely fantastic and I get very consistent results with it. At the price point W is very nice grinder.

Key to make it work really good is the way you transfer coffee from bin to basket. I found that if you pour and tap bin so it deposits coffee into center of basket you end up with nice mount of coffee in center of basket. Then you gently shake it side to side once or twice, rotate basket 90 degrees, gently shake side to side again once and tamp, you will have super consistent results. This works for me every single time.

 
www.10000shots.com
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CoffeeRon
Senior Member
CoffeeRon
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 735
Location: Tacoma Wa.
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
Grinder: Macap M7D, Pharos, Vario W,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam CoffeeMaster
Drip: Melita BCM-4
Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 3:14pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

emradguy Said:

BST forum...there you go, drive up to Ontario and get yourself a formerly loved GS/3 for 3.5k.

.

Posted July 5, 2013 link

+1 - Match made in heaven.
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emil3m
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 103
Location: New York
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Vario
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 3:28pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

DeanOK Said:

If you are grinding at macro 1 and then dialing in your micro adjustment while using a firm 30 lb tamp, your pressure is probably reasonably close. If you're on Macro 3 and you have an even 30 lb tamp, I would say to check the pressure.

Posted July 5, 2013 link

I tried to calibrate the vario (not the W) to grind coarser. Used the provided tool to the point where the adjustment pin came out (to my shock as you can imagine). Luckily, it went right back in and it took a few turns to the "finer" side to stay put. At that point--maximal coarseness calibration--I was able to climb all the way up to the 2H-M range. My vario is a bit jumpy in the mid-range of the micro (even after inserting the shims per the instructions), so I calibrated it to grind finer in order to get myself to the 3D-J range. I am pretty consistent with the tamp (probably at 25lb) and it is even too. I use freshly roasted bean from Blue Bottle (after letting them degas 3-4 days) and use them up within 15 days.

To sleep better at night, I tell myself that each Vario is different and that it is not an indicator of a weak pump. I'm almost hesitant to buy the gauge, find out the pump is weaker, and end up buying a GS/3 before the budget allows.

I can't bring myself to spend $3,500 on a used machine. I would much rather spend $7,000 on a new one or buy a different new one for $3,500. Irrational? Maybe. But behavior modifying psychotherapy would be more expensive and not nearly as fun as pulling shots on a brand new machine :)

So far only the Vibiemme Double Domobar made the shortlist (thank you, Tek!)

More ideas?

 
Currently in love with Hayes Valley by Blue Bottle--locally roasted next to my house in Brooklyn
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 649
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 4:00pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

emil3m Said:

I tried to calibrate the vario (not the W) to grind coarser.

Posted July 5, 2013 link

mmmm... I would have thought at those settings that you would be looking for finer.... so I am totally lost now. One advantage you have is that living in NYC you could certainly find a home bartista class... That way you could rub elbows with others that share your passion and learn a lot ..... you might even meet the certain lady to help you drink the morning espresso. I have looked all over the place for class out here in the sticks and can't find one in the entire state.
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CoffeeRon
Senior Member
CoffeeRon
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 735
Location: Tacoma Wa.
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
Grinder: Macap M7D, Pharos, Vario W,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam CoffeeMaster
Drip: Melita BCM-4
Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 4:48pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

As for other ideas have you considered the Londinium? One CG member, BLrdFX, chose it over the GS/3 when he owned both to compare and sold the GS/3. You might check out the Londinium thread in the lever forum for more info.
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emil3m
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 103
Location: New York
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Vario
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 5:08pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

DeanOK Said:

mmmm... I would have thought at those settings that you would be looking for finer.... so I am totally lost now. One advantage you have is that living in NYC you could certainly find a home bartista class... That way you could rub elbows with others that share your passion and learn a lot ..... you might even meet the certain lady to help you drink the morning espresso. I have looked all over the place for class out here in the sticks and can't find one in the entire state.

Posted July 5, 2013 link

lol to the lady comment!

Yea--I am considering classes either by intelligentsia, stumptown, or counter culture.

I calibrated to grind coarser because it was choking on the 2nd macro level. Aftet that calibration, 2H was yielding ristrettos at most. Just wanted to see how come everybody is pulling through 2nd macro level without a problem. If I calibrated it to grind finer, it would land me into the 4th macro setting (I was at 3M out if the box). Baratza customer service said not to mind the numbers and that it's the nature of the beast for grinders to be different.

 
Currently in love with Hayes Valley by Blue Bottle--locally roasted next to my house in Brooklyn
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