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GS/3 v Speedster
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > GS/3 v Speedster  
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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Location: Germany
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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2013, 3:59am
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

lukeap69 Said:

He was talking about the new quickmill vetrano 2b which is a dual boiler machine. There is another thread discussing this.

Posted July 10, 2013 link

Sorry, I missed that. The Vetrano 2B rivals the R58 in design and features.

 
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
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Espresso: N S Oscar
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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2013, 9:23am
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

Sorry this is off topic but his email address was not there to take this off board.


Occoffeefan,

Did you take the private class @ Klatch coffee or the cheaper one day class and get to bring your own machine?  I am guessing you live close enough to drive.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

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cafeespresso
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Joined: 16 May 2005
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Location: South Florida, USA
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Espresso: Expobar Office Pulser
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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2013, 9:34am
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

occoffeefan Said:

I just took a 1 day class from Heather Perry at Klatch coffee.  I own a Baratza Vario W and the Breville Dual Boiler (BDB).
Higher end machines will not fit under my low cabinets. I brought my machine and grinder to her classroom.  She had a La Marzocco and Nuovo simonelli commercial machine in the class room. We used the Klatch WBC espresso.  Impressions:
The La Marzocco pulled a sweeter shot than the Nuovo and my BDB with less bitterness.  The Nuovo had preinfusion, the La Marzocco did not, but shots were better from the La Marzocco. , After tweaking the shot on my BDB  (increasing temp to 203 on and playing with the grind, we were able to pull a very sweet shot from the BDB which tasted comparable  to the La Marzocco.   Latte art was  easy on my BDB,  the Nuovo also was easy to create latte art, but the La Marzocco steam was very fast and is tougher for Latte art. The commercial Italian machines (the Nuovo and La Marzocco  had a well built sturdy feel to them.
My advice.. take classes  from an experienced barista - the results in your shots and Latte art will be greatly improved.  Do not underestimate the value of training.   A  2000- 3000 dollar dual boiler machine e61 grouphead machine with a PID  such as an alex duetto, rocket r58, quickmill, expobar or vibiemme and a good grinder with techniques learned from experienced baristas should provide you with good consistent results for a lifetime. Of course if you want a more beautiful machine such as Speedster, Slayer , Mistral or Hydra, go for it!. My BDB is good, tends to pull a brighter shot than the above until you tweak it and is not as well built as the above, but it is what fits in my kitchen. As evidenced in the class I took, it is capable of pulling a great shot.

Posted July 10, 2013 link

solid piece of advice
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:12am
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

cafeespresso Said:

solid piece of advice

Posted July 10, 2013 link

This is the closest class I can find to my location... 4 hour drive. I guess I didn't expect a 7.5 hour class to cost $300.00.

Click Here (www.texascoffeeschool.com)
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bmorton
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Espresso: Quickmill Vetrano 2B
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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:37am
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

As a basis for comparison, Intelligentsia offers a 3 hour class in NYC for $200, while Counter Culture has an all day class for the same price.  All day meaning 9-4, with I assume some time off for lunch.

I'll get around to taking one of these classes before too long, I'm sure.
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Coffeenoobie
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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:04am
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

The one I took in Seattle was 250 I think.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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occoffeefan
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Posted Wed Jul 10, 2013, 4:56pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

Sorry this is off topic but his email address was not there to take this off board.


Occoffeefan,

Did you take the private class @ Klatch coffee or the cheaper one day class and get to bring your own machine?  I am guessing you live close enough to drive.

Posted July 10, 2013 link


I took the private 1 day session with Heather.  I drove to Klatch in Upland. I was able to bring any equipment I wanted.  The ability to play with professional equipment, to be able optimize my own equipment and have an expert barista guide me and answer any questions I had made it worth it.  A wonderful experience.
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shnxx
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shnxx
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Location: Pasadena
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Mar 11, 2014, 1:11am
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

What an interesting thread.

I also am considering buying a GS3 or a similar machine.

I have a Compak K10 grinder for espresso and a Mahlkonig Guat for drip/pourover.
Plumbing is a bit of an annoyance but counter space is not an issue.
220v I wouldn't want to deal with and I don't want to buy a Speedster.

Is GS3, at near $5500, going to be better than all the other ~3000 dollar prosumer machines?
Will it steam better?
Will it be easier to use?
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boar_d_laze
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Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
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Posted Tue Mar 11, 2014, 6:08am
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

shnxx Said:

Is GS3, at near $5500, going to be better than all the other ~3000 dollar prosumer machines?

Posted March 11, 2014 link

"Better" is such a difficult term -- especially without breaking it down into specifics.  Better built, better ergonomics, easier to dial-in, faster recovery; and most important, the LM "full saturation" group is not only more forgiving than an E-61 but richer and sweeter "in the cup."

"Prosumer" is another difficult term.  Because of it's capacities, component quality, interior lay out, and work flow,  I'd class the GS/3 as a true commercial and not a prosumer.  That it works so well in the home, is a nice benefit.  

The ability to stay out of the grinder's way in terms of showing what the beans have to offer is one of the few, real bottom-lines for espresso machines.  The GS/3 will take better advantage of a Compak K10 quality grinder than any, current prosumer DB.        

That said, current prosumer DB prices top out at a little under $3K -- and there's some big magic which happens just on the other side of that number.  Also, if I'm not mistaken, there's been a price increase and the GS/3 currently streets at around $6K, not $5500.  

Notice also, that I'm saying "current prosumer DB."  There's at least one E-61, prosumer DB machine on the near horizon, the Vesuvius," which has very sophisticated pressure profiling capabilities and may be better in the cup (at least for some people) than the GS/3.  It's going to be very expensive though.    

Will it steam better?

It will steam a 500ml pitcher faster, and to my mind faster is better.  It will steam a series of 750ml pitchers MUCH faster.  

I don't know how La Marzocco gets so much power out of so few amps.  You'll have to ask Bill Crossland.

It's a "higher" production capabilities than prosumer machines isn't limited to steaming.  If you co catering volumes -- say parties of 8 or larger -- more often than a few times a year, its extra speed and better work-flow is something you'll appreciate.  

Will it be easier to use?

"Easier" is another one of those terms.  I expect most people would find it more responsive and more pleasant.  Faster to dial-in, too.

However, it's no "better" in any of the respects mentioned in our posts than one of the big-deal 3K - 4K HXs, just different.  There are some awesome single group, true-commercial levers in the same price range, but -- of course -- they're significantly slower.  What takes 10 minutes on a GS/3 or Cimbali Casa would take almost 30 on a Pompeii 1 group.      

Rich
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shnxx
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shnxx
Joined: 3 Jul 2009
Posts: 128
Location: Pasadena
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Mar 11, 2014, 2:32pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 v Speedster
 

boar_d_laze Said:

"Better" is such a difficult term -- especially without breaking it down into specifics.  Better built, better ergonomics, easier to dial-in, faster recovery; and most important, the LM "full saturation" group is not only more forgiving than an E-61 but richer and sweeter "in the cup."

"Prosumer" is another difficult term.  Because of it's capacities, component quality, interior lay out, and work flow,  I'd class the GS/3 as a true commercial and not a prosumer.  That it works so well in the home, is a nice benefit.  

The ability to stay out of the grinder's way in terms of showing what the beans have to offer is one of the few, real bottom-lines for espresso machines.  The GS/3 will take better advantage of a Compak K10 quality grinder than any, current prosumer DB.        

That said, current prosumer DB prices top out at a little under $3K -- and there's some big magic which happens just on the other side of that number.  Also, if I'm not mistaken, there's been a price increase and the GS/3 currently streets at around $6K, not $5500.  

Notice also, that I'm saying "current prosumer DB."  There's at least one E-61, prosumer DB machine on the near horizon, the Vesuvius," which has very sophisticated pressure profiling capabilities and may be better in the cup (at least for some people) than the GS/3.  It's going to be very expensive though.    

It will steam a 500ml pitcher faster, and to my mind faster is better.  It will steam a series of 750ml pitchers MUCH faster.  

I don't know how La Marzocco gets so much power out of so few amps.  You'll have to ask Bill Crossland.

It's a "higher" production capabilities than prosumer machines isn't limited to steaming.  If you co catering volumes -- say parties of 8 or larger -- more often than a few times a year, its extra speed and better work-flow is something you'll appreciate.  

"Easier" is another one of those terms.  I expect most people would find it more responsive and more pleasant.  Faster to dial-in, too.

However, it's no "better" in any of the respects mentioned in our posts than one of the big-deal 3K - 4K HXs, just different.  There are some awesome single group, true-commercial levers in the same price range, but -- of course -- they're significantly slower.  What takes 10 minutes on a GS/3 or Cimbali Casa would take almost 30 on a Pompeii 1 group.      

Rich

Posted March 11, 2014 link

great. thanks for the reply rich!
why is a true commercial lever slower than a gs3?
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