Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
Rocket Espresso R58 Double Boiler -  Everything you need for the perfect shot!
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Rocket HX...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 2 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
JPizzzle
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jun 2013
Posts: 11
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 1:24pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

I'm not sure if the 2oz flush is accurate.  Check out this guys videos.  It takes a bit to bring down the temp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y93VeAk9cIY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFCDggOBG8M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvaGNwyWyPU
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Sigma
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Apr 2013
Posts: 33
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 2:54pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

Lots of really helpful answers here.

There's a bit more to the thread linked to than might first meet the eye.

For what is is worth, I'm not purchasing from them, but from a reputable dealer in Canada.

I'm not sure if the 2oz flush is accurate.  Check out this guys videos.

This is interesting, why is there a discrepancy? Perhaps (s)he has a higher boiler pressure/temp?

As someone who has been seriously considering a DB because the cooling flush was intimidating, should I be taking this as it is really not that bad?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
dsblv
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Dec 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Bellevue, WA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: MACAP MC4
Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 4:01pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

Flushing is no big deal, as long as take a methodical approach and have some patience.  It really helps to add a group thermometer to your machine.  The thermometers are available from Chris Coffee.  The thermometer provides the data you need to adjust the timing of your flushing and brewing.  It's key to developing a consistent process.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,034
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Jun 26, 2013, 4:56am
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

Buy whatever you want, no one is going to say you are wrong.
Each machine can be different. Each machine is adjusted by it's owner.

To say some guys setup on youtube is true for everyone in the world, is as wrong as making a blanket statement about anything.

If you want a DB, that is fine but the HX flush is not a reason to buy a DB as nearly all DB machines need a WARMING flush

and please understand

ALL MACHINES NEED A CLEANING FLUSH, EVERY SINGLE ONE, NO EXCEPTIONS

The flush is NOT temp surfing, the machine is VERY TEMP STABLE in use.

Do what you will, that is fine, I really don't care, it is your money, not mine, spend it any way you like but a cooling flush is not a big deal.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,506
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Jun 26, 2013, 5:22am
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

tglodjo Said:

Very interesting. I just sold my Cellini Premium Plus V1 because I hated dealing with the cooling flush and small drip tray. I was flushing 8-10oz of water to pull a shot. If this is a fix in the new machines that just hasn't been advertised, it's a major plus. Definitely something I would advertise and push if I were Rocket.

Posted June 25, 2013 link

That seems like a lot, on avg H/X is usually around 3 to maybe 5 ounces, but 8-10oz is a ton of wasted water each time. I don't know the Cellini but is that the norm for the machine?

Like blacksmith said, all machines need a flush of some sort. On my CC1 right before I pull a shot I do a flush (warming flush as he said) of about an ounce and  half into the shot glass w/ the PF locked in. Dry the PF, dose, tamp, and the machine is right back to the temp set on the PID. Then after a shot and unlocking the PF I always do a quick cleaning flush to get any left over grinds off the screen (I have a screen brush too). Same procedure would be done on a double boiler, so it's not like you can go single/double boiler and not worry about a flush at all, the h/x is just a bit different b/c of how it works and really all you do is flush a couple ounces out till the water dance/steam stops.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tglodjo
Senior Member
tglodjo
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Jackson, TN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Wave, V60, Chemex, Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jun 26, 2013, 6:19am
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

CMIN Said:

That seems like a lot, on avg H/X is usually around 3 to maybe 5 ounces, but 8-10oz is a ton of wasted water each time. I don't know the Cellini but is that the norm for the machine?

Posted June 26, 2013 link

Since I do a lot of milk drinks when entertaining, I had the boiler pressure set to 1.3 (which is what DavecUK recommends in his Bella Barista review). With the higher pressure, tank model, and small drip tray, the flush became more of a nuisance. Definitely not the case with all heat exchangers, nor even all Rockets. I loved my Rocket for its performance and overall sex appeal, but man, I sure am happy with my new Vivaldi with larger drip tray and shorter flush.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Sigma
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Apr 2013
Posts: 33
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:48am
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

Ok thanks for all the information guys. What I"m taking away from this is that a) groups need to be flushed either to bring up or down the temperature; b) HX just requires that bit more effort but with Eric's thermometer it's much simpler; c) thermosyphon restrictors help a lot, but aren't some magical bullet.

My ambient kitchen air temperature swings between +16C and +25C depending on winter/summer. Even with a DB with PID, there is no guarantee that the group is at temperature X because a PID only guarantees a boiler temperature, and that offset will be climate dependent. Ergo, one needs Eric's thermometer for repeatable pulls on any E61 even if you have DB + PID. Or at least required for calibration of the PID offset. Therefore, it's probably actually *easier* to go with a HX + thermosyphon restrictor + Eric's thermometer to nail consistent temperatures. Is this reasonable or have I missed something?

Do what you will, that is fine, I really don't care, it is your money, not mine, spend it any way you like but a cooling flush is not a big deal.

Love the frankness :) What I'm hearing that is money is better spent elsewhere ;)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JPizzzle
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jun 2013
Posts: 11
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:19pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

calblacksmith Said:

Buy whatever you want, no one is going to say you are wrong.
Each machine can be different. Each machine is adjusted by it's owner.

To say some guys setup on youtube is true for everyone in the world, is as wrong as making a blanket statement about anything.

If you want a DB, that is fine but the HX flush is not a reason to buy a DB as nearly all DB machines need a WARMING flush

and please understand

ALL MACHINES NEED A CLEANING FLUSH, EVERY SINGLE ONE, NO EXCEPTIONS

The flush is NOT temp surfing, the machine is VERY TEMP STABLE in use.

Do what you will, that is fine, I really don't care, it is your money, not mine, spend it any way you like but a cooling flush is not a big deal.

Posted June 26, 2013 link

Very true, all machines need to be flushed and 1 person's machine can differ greatly from anothers.  However, from my readings and research (and granted i'm still a newb), the flushing for a HX machine is significantly more than that for a DB.  A DB can use a quick 1oz or so flush to get things warmed up, but a HX will be more.  So this might not be an issue for someone who has the capabilities of plumbing in the water and out the drip tray, but it can be a headache for someone who does not have this option.  I'm currently deciding between a cellini evo 2 vs r58, and am leaning to the r58 for various reasons, but one being that I don't have to empty the drip tray all the time from cooling flushes.  Anyway, I think many can agree that a cooling flush on a HX is not the end of the world, and some do enjoy it, but that there is a higher level of convenience and less worry (plus having to install a thermostat which IMO takes away from the looks of a Rocket) when going with a quality DB.  IMO
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,506
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:19pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

Sigma Said:

Ok thanks for all the information guys. What I"m taking away from this is that a) groups need to be flushed either to bring up or down the temperature; b) HX just requires that bit more effort but with Eric's thermometer it's much simpler; c) thermosyphon restrictors help a lot, but aren't some magical bullet.

My ambient kitchen air temperature swings between +16C and +25C depending on winter/summer. Even with a DB with PID, there is no guarantee that the group is at temperature X because a PID only guarantees a boiler temperature, and that offset will be climate dependent. Ergo, one needs Eric's thermometer for repeatable pulls on any E61 even if you have DB + PID. Or at least required for calibration of the PID offset. Therefore, it's probably actually *easier* to go with a HX + thermosyphon restrictor + Eric's thermometer to nail consistent temperatures. Is this reasonable or have I missed something?


Love the frankness :) What I'm hearing that is money is better spent elsewhere ;)

Posted June 26, 2013 link

correct but you don't have to go all out anal like that lol. With an h/x Erics thermometer is good to have since otherwise you really have no clue what temps are being pulled at. With a good PID machine after at least 30+ min warmup with PF in (same for h/x) the whole machine and group head (not just the boiler) will be pretty stable, except you'll want to do like an ounce flush at least as when water runs through it'll make sure everything it touches is temp stable. And once your repeatably pulling shots one after another the machine will be stable each time as all that water has been pulling through it. So PID just let warm up and pull a blank shot or so initially, you could hook up the thermometer readout but no real need, the h/x though it'll be good for as that way you'll see what your pulling at as there's no other readout and then you can avg out what each water dance does (i.e. 2 second, 3 second, 5 seconds... could be 199,200,202 degrees).

E61 groups are exposed, so their a little more susceptible (some people throw a damp towel over the group), but no need for that either imo. As a buddy has one and after warming up and doing a blank shot flush the group is plenty hot and temp stable. My CC1 is just a single boiler and people who've tested showed the water hitting the puck is stable as it has a larger boiler vs others in its class and the water getting pushed out to the puck isn't really effected by the water coming into the boiler for a normal shot time, so no reason the much more expensive PID'ed machines can't do the same.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,052
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:21pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

Since I installed the musica restrictors on my Oscar my 2 oz or less flush is so small that it is almost not enough to warm my cups.  Not magic, but thermosyphons, if done well reduces or (Londinium guys claim) eliminates the flush before a pull.

The Londinium guys have their thermosyphon balanced that they had to change some parts out on their machines to work in places that are hot most of the year because England is not as warm.   They want you to use the hot water wand for the cup warming.  I believe you still need a flush to clean the grinds out.  I have played with one a few months ago and I was most impressed with the taste in the cup. People are selling their GS/3 & speedsters and getting the Londinium.

http://londiniumespresso.com/blogs/londinium-espresso-blog


I think your logic about the head temp is correct.  But I pull very good shots without a read out of the group head temp.  If I could have it I would like it.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
showing page 2 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Rocket HX...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Find the Right Machine...
Package deals on the best machines from Izzo, Quick Mill, Rocket, La Marzocco & more.
www.clivecoffee.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.457561969757)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+