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Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Rocket HX...  
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Sigma
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Joined: 2 Apr 2013
Posts: 33
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:09am
Subject: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

Reading here
Click Here (coffeesnobs.com.au)
it is suggested that the new Rocket HXs do not need a cooling flush, or very little (2oz), due to their thermosyphon restrictor.

Is this really true? Is the temperature management that straightforward?
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
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Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:20am
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

My Oscar with Musica thermosyphon restrictors only needs a 2 oz flush.  The londinium has a thermosyphon that they have balanced so it doesn't need a flush at all.

 
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tglodjo
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tglodjo
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Jackson, TN
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Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
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Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:31am
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

Very interesting. I just sold my Cellini Premium Plus V1 because I hated dealing with the cooling flush and small drip tray. I was flushing 8-10oz of water to pull a shot. If this is a fix in the new machines that just hasn't been advertised, it's a major plus. Definitely something I would advertise and push if I were Rocket.
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Sigma
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Joined: 2 Apr 2013
Posts: 33
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 12:38pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

This feature seems like "A Big Deal" and should be something they advertise.

If it's the case, what temperature would the group be at?
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dsblv
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Joined: 2 Dec 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Bellevue, WA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: MACAP MC4
Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 1:02pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

The Rocket's need a flush, like any other HX machine.  I use the standard flushing technique and flush until the water dance stops.  If the machine is hot, I typically end up flushing 4-5 ounces.  I use a group thermometer to determine when to pull the shot.  Once you get things dialed in, the process is very repeatable and easy to do.
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Sigma
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Joined: 2 Apr 2013
Posts: 33
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Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 1:37pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

Which Rocket do you have?
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Freddo58
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Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 36
Location: New Zealand
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

dsblv Said:

The Rocket's need a flush, like any other HX machine.  I use the standard flushing technique and flush until the water dance stops.  If the machine is hot, I typically end up flushing 4-5 ounces.  I use a group thermometer to determine when to pull the shot.  Once you get things dialed in, the process is very repeatable and easy to do.

Posted June 25, 2013 link

Correct.   It may be true that the thermosyphon (and whole system) design is optimised, and that the amount needed for cooling flush is reduced in some machines, but you can't eliminate it in conventional HX design.


There's a bit more to the thread linked to than might first meet the eye.  You can buy Italian made HX and DB machines of this type directly from Italy at much lower price delivered than Aussie retail (even after shipping and customs costs are paid, the price may be only 2/3 or less than local prices for Izzo, Quickmill, Rocket etc).  Of course you have no local warranty - it would be a major cost and nuisance to have to ship a 30kg espresso machine half-way around the world for service - but it's a big saving.  US retail prices are much more reasonable - not as cheap as direct from Italy - but the difference doesn't make your eyebrows rise - and buying from a local supplier is a no-brainer.  Anybody suggesting importing machines direct on aussie forums will be pounced on by site sponsors.
You can read all kinds of "interesting" claims on Aussie sites, that despite having European CE certification, the machines shipped "grey market" are electrically unsafe, that despite being sold to many happy customers throughout Europe, the machines are not "set up" for "local expectations" - they run too hot, too cold, too much or not enough pressure, whatever.  It's not just coffee machines, but for many retail products there are concerted campaigns on the 'net designed to convince about the added value of buying locally - unfortunately this sometimes results in FUD.
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dsblv
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Joined: 2 Dec 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Bellevue, WA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: MACAP MC4
Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 2:08pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

I have the Evoluzione.  I believe all current Rocket HX machines share a common HX design.  So, there shouldn't be variation among the HX models.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

All HX machines need a cooling flush and nearly all DB machines need a warming flush and EVERY MACHINE MADE needs a CLEANING flush so it really isn't a big deal.

My machine takes about 3 oz of water and that goes into the cup for warming though the cup came off the warmer. My machine is on 24/7 and often it is 18 or more hours between shots and still only about 3 oz is need. My drip tray is plumbed in as is the machine but like I said, the water goes into a cup to warm it so it does not go into my waste jug of water (plumbed in for water supply and a 4 gal jug for waste water)

The only exception to the HX needing a flush for cooling is when some numb skull lowers the temp in the boiler to brew temp then the first shot out is to temp and you need to wait for the second shot to get to temp. Forget about steaming, the boiler is set too low, below the boiling point of water. If you do this, all you do is turn a really nice HX machine into a big, handicapped SBDU, without the DU.

There is a LOT of misunderstanding on how a HX works and that leads to all sorts of folk lore and urban legends about their operation

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Freddo58
Senior Member


Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 36
Location: New Zealand
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 2:24pm
Subject: Re: Rocket HX doesn't need flush?
 

dsblv Said:

I have the Evoluzione.  I believe all current Rocket HX machines share a common HX design.  So, there shouldn't be variation among the HX models.

Posted June 25, 2013 link

Yep.  The variation with the rotary pump model in brewing technique is that if it's plumbed in, then you can use water line pressure for gentle pre-infusion - the middle position on the lever - in addition to the automatic mechanical pre-infusion built in to the group which actuates when you raise the lever.  I used to do this - but then when I tried using only the automatic mechanical pre-infusion, the coffee tasted exactly the same, so I don't bother any more.  The need to do this probably depends on the beans and grinder - I've never had an issue with channeling / early blonding, so it seems to me there's no benefit, but others may have a different view on this.
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