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Mysonssecondwordwascoffee
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 11
Location: NYC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville DB BES900XL
Grinder: Barratza Vario-W
Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 11:49am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

agree - did anybody mention that Marzocco is manufactured in Florence, Italy?

one of my favorite coffeeshops in NYC just switched their Synesso (made in USA) for a Marzocco because of service issues ...

I am happy with my BDB - when it works it makes phantastic coffee and steams milk perfectly.
However, I am on my 4th machine within a year for various issues (No 1 did not build up pressure after about 6m of use, No2 fogged up the pressure dial to a point where water was collecting within the gauge, No 3 had the same problem, and No 4 works just fine - but only for a month now).

As long as they exchange it (No 4 I actually bought from a full refund Breville issued), I am not going to pay the extra bucks for a GS3 or Speedster, which I think would be the next sensible upgrade.
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vitomatt
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Los A
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:43pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Hi... new to this forum here. Sorry I'm Im asking questions which have asked already....

Based on 2013 SCAA, is a new BDB BES900XL version coming out.... in early 2014?
If so what features will it have... I've heard it will allow owner descale and perhaps have a rotary pump? Is this correct?
If I'm not in a rush to upgrade (Macap M4/Gaggia Classic) would you recommend waiting?
Also it seems that QC with Breville is an issue but excellent customer service evens it out... however, how long is the warranty, and once out of warranty does Breville still send replacement machines?
Thanks for all your help!
Best
Matt
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JMFishtown
Senior Member
JMFishtown
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Compak K3 Touch
Drip: Aeropress, Espro Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 1:50pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Matt:

I think i remembered seeing that the owner descalable BDBs will be available q3 or q4 2013 (from Phil McKnight on an aussie forum).

As for the rotary pump, that was part of the "Breville 9" that is most likely a prototype only.  I would say if you're in no rush, wait until the owner descale version comes out.  

The warranty in the US is 1 year, and i wouldn't expect anything after that even though the rare circumstance might get you additional support.  I would recommend using an AMEX card to purchase it which doubles the manufacturers warranty.

Lastly though, it seems that all of the issues that have come up with the first machines have been resolved with manufacturing changes, so I definitely would have confidence that a 2013 bdb would last 3-5 years.
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 2:02pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

JMFishtown Said:

The warranty in the US is 1 year, and i wouldn't expect anything after that even though the rare circumstance might get you additional support.  I would recommend using an AMEX card to purchase it which doubles the manufacturers warranty.

Posted June 24, 2013 link

Breville has been very generous about taking care of faults that come up after the warranty expires. Using the Amex card is a good idea, just in case.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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dagoat
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 320
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 3:02pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

BubbaDude Said:

Italian manufacturing is a joke around the world. After shoes, clothing, and food, Italy pretty much can manufacture things that any sensible person would want to own.

Posted June 24, 2013 link

Right-you-are about that, Richard.  EVEN Ferrari and Lambo.  Handmade masterpieces, with all the foibles and finish-quality inconsistency of hand made pies... Wholly unsuited to day to day use.  They don't even have a supply chain in place to replace the kinds of things that wear out from daily use.  Guys who actually drive their Ferraris are the durability testers. Why pay attention to designing seals that last longer than 5000 miles when it may take a decade to accumulate that?  They're like dating a supermodel addicted to coke and partying.  With all excitement,  heartache, and tremendous expense, therein.

--Peter
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Mysonssecondwordwascoffee
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 11
Location: NYC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville DB BES900XL
Grinder: Barratza Vario-W
Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 3:12pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

How about stopping the Made in Italy bashing!?

Last time I checked, almost ALL top NYC coffeeshops (Joe's, Stumptown, Blue Bottle, Toby's etc.) have Marzoccos, or Marzocco-derived machines. Cannot be all that unreliable if those guys chose to pull a couple of hundred shots a day on them.

So enough already and back on BDB topics, please!
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 3:27pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Mysonssecondwordwascoffee Said:

Last time I checked, almost ALL top NYC coffeeshops (Joe's, Stumptown, Blue Bottle, Toby's etc.) have Marzoccos, or Marzocco-derived machines. Cannot be all that unreliable if those guys chose to pull a couple of hundred shots a day on them.

Posted June 24, 2013 link

Not much relevance to the home user with a sub-$10K budget.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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Freddo58
Senior Member


Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 36
Location: New Zealand
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 4:23pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

AFAIK there's two new "dual boiler" models coming from Breville, BES 980 and BES 920.
The 980 has inbuilt grinder with automated dose and tamp.  I guess you could say it's kind of in-between a semi-auto and a bean to cup machine.
The 920 has claimed improved steam performance  ("3 bar steam boiler"?), different/better design on group filter holder, claimed improved shot dose metering, and is able to be user-descaled.  That's all good, but one comment I read is that wattage is increased to 2400W.  I'm not sure how that's adapted for a 115V model - even in 230V markets they probably have to switch between elements, as >10A power demand isn't normal for a plug-in appliance.

The China vs Italy nonsense is nonsense.  You buy an espresso machine "made in China" from a domestic appliance maker - and you get exactly that - a chinese made domestic appliance.  It will be manufactured and assembled by people who don't know what espresso is, couldn't afford it if they did know, and have no "connection" with the concept.  A "kaizen" like concept of Total Quality Management is completely absent, quality control something which must be enforced from top-down.  Breville seem to do okay at this, but it's very naive to think that you're getting more than you're paying for.
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Mysonssecondwordwascoffee
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 11
Location: NYC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville DB BES900XL
Grinder: Barratza Vario-W
Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 5:20pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

The point I was trying to make was: The Italians know how to make an espresso machine.
A good friend of mine has had a Marzocco GS3 since it came out, and is still on No 1. I am on No 4, within one year.
I suspect the Made-in-Italy haters have not owned a single product made in Italy ...

BTW:
Price Point of the Marzocco GS3: 6,700US$
Price Point of the Speedster: 5,800 Euros
Well below 10K, wouldn't you agree, BubbaDude?

I will agree with you that it is still too much for most "Prosumers", like you and me.
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Mysonssecondwordwascoffee Said:

BTW:
Price Point of the Marzocco GS3: 6,700US$
Price Point of the Speedster: 5,800 Euros
Well below 10K, wouldn't you agree, BubbaDude?

Posted June 24, 2013 link

Those aren't the machines you mentioned in your last post:

Mysonssecondwordwascoffee Said:

Last time I checked, almost ALL top NYC coffeeshops (Joe's, Stumptown, Blue Bottle, Toby's etc.) have Marzoccos, or Marzocco-derived machines. Cannot be all that unreliable if those guys chose to pull a couple of hundred shots a day on them.

Posted June 24, 2013 link

La Marzocco sells a number of different machines. These cafe models cost what, $20-30K? And of course they're hand assembled and need to be professionally serviced on a regular basis. A number of clueless consumers have installed restaurant-grade stoves only to be shocked that they need to be professionally serviced every three months.

Apples and oranges.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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