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Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
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sgnoobie
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Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 60
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: HMMS
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Posted Fri May 24, 2013, 9:16pm
Subject: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

As above....is the Crossland CC1 the best machine with a full-size 58mm portafilter under $1000?
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CMIN
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Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,451
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri May 24, 2013, 9:30pm
Subject: Re: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

Excellent machine,  but best under a thousand, not sure about that. There are some nice machines right around the 1k mark, the Cuadra is just under 1k and is an h/x. At its price point though and for its class it flat out slaps its competition in specs and performance ( Classic, Silvia etc).

I love it and its shot consistancy, but I wouldn't say its the best overall under 1k.
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smoretti
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Location: Wisconsin USA
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Espresso: FF X5
Grinder: Macap M4 Stepless
Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 2:44am
Subject: Re: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

I think Quick Mill Sylvano is another appealing choice.
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tglodjo
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tglodjo
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Jackson, TN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Wave, V60, Chemex, Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 4:45am
Subject: Re: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

How about best under $700? Definitely outclasses its closest competitor, Silvia, but if I had 1K on just a machine, I would still opt for Cuadra or maybe Silvia. And if you start to talk used, there are some great beasts, like NS Oscar that go well below 1K.
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
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Location: Houston
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Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
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Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 6:09am
Subject: Re: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

tglodjo Said:

How about best under $700? Definitely outclasses its closest competitor, Silvia, but if I had 1K on just a machine, I would still opt for Cuadra or maybe Silvia. And if you start to talk used, there are some great beasts, like NS Oscar that go well below 1K.

Posted May 25, 2013 link

I'd probably agree with that (though I haven't done much research on new machines at 1k).  However, if you need to add on an espresso capable grinder and not exceed the 1k budget, and were only interested in new gear, then I'd say get the CC1.

.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Iluvdabean
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Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,279
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 7:00am
Subject: Re: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

Seems like the old standard was Gaggia Classic...Silvia ..then PID Silvia. If you really wanted to trick it out. I used a Gaggia Classic everyday for five years
without a hitch.Now my daughters using it. Im a Silvia fan and would buy that before a CC1 so there ya go on what I think. I like tried and true designs that
are less computerized. For me when you get to the 1000 dollar range you might as well spend a few hundred more and get a good HX machine ,La Cuadra is what I opted for
and love it. Oscar is another option. Right now at 1stLine there is a killer deal for 976.00 in the Bezzera BZ02 Commercial Espresso Machine. So while yes the CC1 is a good
machine ( its new with no track record) it is what it is. I drove myself nuts for a long time trying to figure out a machine for me to upgrade to. I finally narrowed it to an HX machine
with E61. When La Cuadra came along for 1000.00 that was it. Yet guys like to all think that their machines are the best so you have to factor that in. To me a great resource
are Jim at 1stline and Chris at Chris coffee. These two guys are in that business and its what they do.
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 715
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 4:07pm
Subject: Re: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

tglodjo Said:

How about best under $700? Definitely outclasses its closest competitor, Silvia, but if I had 1K on just a machine, I would still opt for Cuadra or maybe Silvia. And if you start to talk used, there are some great beasts, like NS Oscar that go well below 1K.

Posted May 25, 2013 link

I realize the Cuadra is much nicer looking than the CC1, but I don't understand the difference between these two machines that makes the Cuadra capable of making a better shot of espresso. Can you explain the technical differences between the two machines that would allow the Cuadra to make a better shot than a CC1? The biggest benefit I can see is that evidently water is circulated through the brew group on the Cuadra to help keep it warm. Is this a significant benefit? I know the brew group on the CC1 stays quite hot, but not sure it is as close to brew temperature as the Cuadra. I would expect the Cuadra to maybe be a little closer to the brew temperature, but does this make a significant difference in shot quality?

Thank you.
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CMIN
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Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,451
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 5:17pm
Subject: Re: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

Cuadra is an H/X, so it will always be more powerful then a single boiler machine (though the CC1 is a single boiler and separate thermo for steaming). H/X even entry ones like the Cuadra and Oscar will be capable of shot after shot after shot and strong steaming power (just the nature of an h/x) faster then a single boiler machine. No way would I choose the Classic or the Silvia over the CC1 though, that PID built in has full control of everything including pre-infusion and is so consistant, no temp surfing, nothing, and way way way faster switching to steam and back and forth. Think SCG did that test with milk drinks and the CC1 was only like a minute and a half behind the pace of the Oscar with 4 milk drinks, the Silvia was like 10 minutes behind I think.

In it's class performance wise, no comparison, CC1 is on another level with that seperate thermo and the full control PID built in. But under a thousand, I'd say no b/c that mark starts opening you up to other entry h/x machines like the Cuadra. Taste in the cup, I'd say no difference or negligible, I couldn't tell any difference vs my CC1 and an Oscar, but you can easily feel the speed and power of an h/x especially going to steam. Though I will say I've made shots and drinks for quite a decent amount of people at the house and was surprised at how well the CC1 kept up, it's no h/x but it's fast for a single boiler. But when you start making decent amount of shots and milk drinks mixed in for guest, thats where you'll see the difference with an h/x.
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myallawala
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myallawala
Joined: 25 Dec 2012
Posts: 86
Location: San Antonio, TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Mazzer Major & Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama Burner
Drip: Hario V60 & Chemex
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun May 26, 2013, 1:47pm
Subject: Re: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

I have the CC1. I like to think it's the bare minimum a machine should be before you can blame the machine instead of the barista. I see no shortcomings of the machine in terms of cup quality if you do your job but I have gripes on the overall efficacy of using the machine.

Here's an updated list of my gripes:

-Unsightly
-Comfortable, but boring handles
-Awkward steam knob position
-Water falls behind drip tray when purging/scrubbing/backflushing
-Really annoying water tank/solenoid drain position


I want to upgrade from the CC1 mostly because of the experience of making a drink. I like crafting the drink as much as drinking it and the CC1 just annoys me too much in this department, but it makes a darn good tasting drink. Don't get me wrong, the machine does a lot more things right than wrong and at the price, I think it's best in class.
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 715
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sun May 26, 2013, 2:47pm
Subject: Re: Is CC1 the best 58mm machine under $1000?
 

myallawala Said:

Here's an updated list of my gripes:

-Unsightly
-Comfortable, but boring handles
-Awkward steam knob position
-Water falls behind drip tray when purging/scrubbing/backflushing
-Really annoying water tank/solenoid drain position

Posted May 26, 2013 link

I have to say that I think unsightly might be a little strong. I agree that is not the most aesthetically pleasing design, but I don't consider it unsightly.
Handles... yeah, they too are not the product of a creative designer, but they are functional.
I agree with the location of the steam knob... you definitely  have to leave plenty of room on the right side of the machine.
I have had a little trouble with water getting behind the drip tray, but not much. Not much of an issue with me.
At first, I found the drain line to be annoying too, but have since learned all of the tricks of getting the water tank in and out with minimum effort. I guess at this point it bothers me more that I have to remove the PF to get the tank out than the drain line does.

The bottom line is that all I really want is a good espresso... I knew I wasn't buying a machine with great lines when I bought it But I think the Vario W fits in the same category... not beautiful, but it is functional. They look good together...both of them are black and stainless. May main gripes at this point is that my steam wand occasionally drips water (much less of a problem when I started leaving the machine on all of the time), and my brew pressure is a little low. I am not above trying to figure out how to adjust the pressure regulator after it goes out of warranty. I don't know why I am worrying about warranty... at this point I have two issues that would qualify for warranty repair, but I am not interested in sending it in and messing with it at this point. I guess I am assuming it will keep working a while and I know it the back of my mind I want a "pretty" machine some day... who knows if I ever will get a pretty one!
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