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No crema
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > No crema  
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Driftless
Senior Member


Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 8
Location: Driftless. Wisconsin
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 2:36pm
Subject: Re: No crema
 

Wow! Great link! I had not found that one yet. I will read in depth. (I got stuck on the new Hottop roaster news!)

Thank you all!
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,227
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 2:44pm
Subject: Re: No crema
 

Yeah, that site is awesome! The guy who does it posts here under "frcn". I've used several of his guides and articles to help me do things and to learn. He's also helped me through private email ( not that I'm advertising his services). He also wrote the manual for the Vibiemme dual boiler machine, which I consider a must have (the manual, that is) for anybody who owns a DB machine. Heck, I probably refer to that manual more than the one I got with my Izzo Alex Duetto!

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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strawberrykoi
Senior Member
strawberrykoi
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 43
Location: USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3,...
Grinder: baratza vario, Hario...
Drip: chemex
Roaster: whirly pop
Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 6:40pm
Subject: Re: No crema
 

Haha... Ahhh, Mr Coffee burr grinder. I mean, is ANYTHING of excellent quality and build from Walmart? Don't feel bad though, that was my first grinder too (although I used it with and aero press ad mokapot). I would vote the issue is with your grinder.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,052
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sat May 25, 2013, 8:53pm
Subject: Re: No crema
 

I gave you some valid suggestions even if you don't believe me yet.  Get the grinder, work on your technique.  Then, when you have everything working nicely, just to humor me, consider roasting a small batch a bit lighter before the oil stage.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 665
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sun May 26, 2013, 1:32am
Subject: Re: No crema
 

]The starting point on a grinder capable of grinding coffee fine enough and consistently enough for espresso starts in at roughly the $250 mark and goes up from there.

Pressurized portafilters are designed to compensate for a poor quality grinder by at least giving you something drinkable. Whatever you have is barely suitable for a
pressurized portafilter, not even to think about going unpressurized yet!

Here, read this link:
Click Here (www.seattlecoffeegear.com)

They explain it much better than I can.

If you want true crema, you have to move away from pressurized portafilters and buy a capable grinder. That's pretty much it.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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Driftless
Senior Member


Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 8
Location: Driftless. Wisconsin
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sun May 26, 2013, 4:10am
Subject: Re: No crema
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

I gave you some valid suggestions even if you don't believe me yet.  Get the grinder, work on your technique.  Then, when you have everything working nicely, just to humor me, consider roasting a small batch a bit lighter before the oil stage.

Posted May 25, 2013 link

I believed you! Really! I just didn't understand the portafilter. Again, to my defense, the woman who I bought it from told me at least three times to use filtered water - so that is where my mind went.

I gave it a good cleaning this morning to take out any scale that may have built up. I decreased the amount of coffee grounds, and I really let things warm up. I got a fair amount a crema so I figure I have the machine partially figured out. And in the meantime I have been reading a lot of reviews for grinders.

I also need to roast today and will go for a full city+.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,227
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sun May 26, 2013, 4:17am
Subject: Re: No crema
 

There you go...TWO MORE votes for a new grinder.

...and yeah, I agree...Helen (Coffeenoobie) gave you a couple of additional good suggestions in her first post

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,227
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sun May 26, 2013, 4:28am
Subject: Re: No crema
 

The reason to use filtered water is to decrease the rate of scale buildup, and because the better the water tastes by itself the better the coffee will taste (all other things being stable).  Not saying you need to get a huge softener, but it's something to consider.  I use the water that's filtered by my refrigerator dispenser.  I've taste compared it to tap in my house, and it's remarkably better.  I've also tested both for mineral hardness (both GH and KH), and the fridge filtered water is also much, much better in that regard.  I used to use an in-reservoir ion exchange resin too, which will further lower scale causing elements.  Those, as you can imagine are really small and the amount of salt it takes to recharge them is on the order of about a teaspoon (iirc), maybe a tablespoon.  There is also at least one model that uses disposable cartridges, so at the expense of paying more the salt impact on the environment is nil. Without any filtering or softening you will need to descale your machine more often, so keep that in mind and set yourself a regular schedule with reminders.

...and another resource for you...Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ...there are several places to find it, but here's a pdf (makes for easy downloading)...

http://users.rcn.com/erics/Water%20Quality/Water%20FAQ.pdf

Glad to see you're seeing some improvement, and wish you continued success (with a new grinder hopefully) :)

.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,052
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun May 26, 2013, 5:41am
Subject: Re: No crema
 

Filtered water is important if you have hard water or don't want to have to descale your machine. (PITA)   Good tasting water is important for any drink made with water, not just coffee.  RO water I believe tastes really bad because there are no minerals in it at all.

And I have full confidence that if you stick with it you will believe everything I suggested.  You too will be singing the grinder song... sing it everyone....  GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,227
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sun May 26, 2013, 5:58am
Subject: Re: No crema
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

Filtered water is important if you have hard water or don't want to have to descale your machine. (PITA)   Good tasting water is important for any drink made with water, not just coffee.  RO water I believe tastes really bad because there are no minerals in it at all.

And I have full confidence that if you stick with it you will believe everything I suggested.  You too will be singing the grinder song... sing it everyone....  GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER.

Posted May 26, 2013 link

I'm pretty sure that when using any water that is NOT 100% mineral free will require one to descale their machine at some point. The real difference is how often. Though, possibly the very rare billionaire might replace the machine, rather than take care of it.

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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