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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Rocket R58...  
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iroast
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Joined: 3 Nov 2011
Posts: 73
Location: NJ
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 7:39am
Subject: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

Hi all,

I left my R58 unused for about a week. Once I got new coffee in, I turned on the machine, waited 20 minutes and then draw water from the brew head. The water that came out was cloudy, so I started to flush the machine with 2 tanks worth of water, but it still comes out slightly cloudy. The water that comes out of the hot water dispenser is clear after drawing a few cups from it. Do I need to descale? I used filtered water only.

Please advise.

Thank you.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,670
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 8:09am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

Does the water clear if it sits for a few minutes?

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,383
Location: UK
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Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 10:53am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

You beat me to it
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iroast
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Joined: 3 Nov 2011
Posts: 73
Location: NJ
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 11:04am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

Thanks. No, unfortunately, it does not clear up. If it did, it would suggests that tiny bubbles at fault.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,670
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 9:08pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

I am a little stumped too, I can't think of any reason for that to happen. I was hoping that it was micro bubbles.

The only time I can think of that had similar symptoms is when I bought a used Sylvia, it had been run with a low water level and the outer copper case of the heater melted  and the white insulation was dissolving into the water, the heater was shot and the whole machine needed a rebuild.

I truly hope your situation is different. The heater can still work in this situation and my heater was still working.

Verry often when this happens, it will trip the ground fault safety if your circuit is equipped with one.

If you have a multi meter, unplug your machine then remove the wires from the heater and if there is continuity between the heater terminal and the frame of the machine then the heater may have been run with pid water and the casing may have been breached.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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dsblv
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Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: MACAP MC4
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 10:22pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

Couldn't the problem have been caused by some contamination from the water source?   Descaling the brew boiler would at least rule out the simplest cause.
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iroast
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Joined: 3 Nov 2011
Posts: 73
Location: NJ
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 10:40pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

dsblv Said:

Couldn't the problem have been caused by some contamination from the water source?   Descaling the brew boiler would at least rule out the simplest cause.

Posted May 18, 2013 link

It's possible. Which descaler/decalcifier do you recommend?

iroast: grouphead_water2.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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iroast
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Joined: 3 Nov 2011
Posts: 73
Location: NJ
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 10:41pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

Water from hot water dispenser is clear. Sorry for tiny pics (75kb limit)

iroast: hot_water_wand_water2.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,670
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 10:59pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

Descaling would not hurt anything and if it has been a while, the machine will benifit.

That said, I have never seen scale dissolve on its own. Scale coats the heating element and sometimes, it can flake off but most of the time, it falls to the bottom of the boiler and a layer of hard scale chips can form, but like I said, it dose not go out of solution on its own, much like the scale oh your shower head just cakes up and gets thicker and thicker until it either clogs the head or you use a chemical to cause it to back into solution again.

What to use? Well citric acid is often used and it is cheep.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Freddo58
Senior Member


Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 36
Location: New Zealand
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 2:30am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 cloudy water problem
 

That photo is small but ...
With water heated to near boiling point, calcium carbonate may precipitate - that might be enough to cause that slight turbidity.
In time, it will fall out of suspension - which may be why it's clear from the HW tap (but may be clumping up inside that boiler).
80% of people probably drink worse looking water out of the tap - but never notice or worry about it, as from your photo it's not so bad that you'd see it in a small tumbler etc.
I doubt it's gunk stirred up from inside the machine, but it's an alarm bell that the water quality (hardness) may be an issue that will cause problems.
The only site that I found (via google) from a NJ municipal supply stated water hardness at 13 grains per gallon ("grains per gallon"??? LOL - Americans) - that is very hard water.  If that's typical for NJ, then espresso machines will really need some extra care.
No - it won't hurt you - but it's an issue for your machine.
The industrial way to deal with this would be to use an ion exchange resin filter.  I live in an area with soft water, so haven't needed to look at the options, but If I saw what you've seen, I'd be testing water hardness, then looking at the best options to deal with it - if tests show you do have hard water.
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