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Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Is 4.75 to 5.25...  
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 693
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Tue May 7, 2013, 9:07pm
Subject: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

If you have been following my saga, I have failed to make consistently good espresso with my CC1. Grasping for straws, I decided to check the brew head pressure. With the brew head completely blanked off I get about 5.25 bars (if my gauge is correct). If I allow a very small amount of water to flow through, the brew head pressure drops to 4.75 bars. I was expecting around 9 blanked off. I know the pressure regulating valve is opening because I can see water returning to the tank through the return line when the portafilter is blanked off.

Is this pressure ok or is this an issue?

Thanks for putting up with me!
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OttoMatic
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 78
Location: Colorado
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Brewtus IV-R
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario,...
Drip: Capresso MT500+
Roaster: Cast iron dutch oven
Posted Tue May 7, 2013, 9:18pm
Subject: Re: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

I'm far from an expert, but I think that's a bit low.  Your assumption of around 9 bars is more like it.
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billc
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 131
Location: Seattle, Washington
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: CC1 - GS - GS3 - GB5
Grinder: Baratza - Mazzer-Marzocco
Drip: My own Creation
Posted Tue May 7, 2013, 9:24pm
Subject: Re: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

Dean,
The OPV is set to about 9 bar at the factory.  Using a blind basket with no flow should yield about 10 bar pressure.  There could be something stuck in the OPV allowing more water to pass than normal.  Send me an email or PM, I would like to know more.


Bill
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 693
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 11:57am
Subject: Re: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

At this point, my frustration level is extremely high. I think my next step will be to confirm that my gauge is correct.

My Vario W is calibrated per factory instructions and I have the grind set to almost as fine as it will go... that doesn't seem to marry up with a low brew pressure... but we will see.
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,153
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 12:25pm
Subject: Re: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

billc Said:

Dean,
The OPV is set to about 9 bar at the factory.  Using a blind basket with no flow should yield about 9-9.5 bar pressure.  There could be something stuck in the OPV allowing more water to pass than normal.  Send me an email or PM, I would like to know more.


Bill

Posted May 7, 2013 link

DeanOK Said:

At this point, my frustration level is extremely high. I think my next step will be to confirm that my gauge is correct.

My Vario W is calibrated per factory instructions and I have the grind set to almost as fine as it will go... that doesn't seem to marry up with a low brew pressure... but we will see.

Posted May 8, 2013 link

Do yourself a favor and take Mr Crosslands offer and send him an email.
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billc
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 131
Location: Seattle, Washington
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: CC1 - GS - GS3 - GB5
Grinder: Baratza - Mazzer-Marzocco
Drip: My own Creation
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 4:48pm
Subject: Re: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

One thing to check is if you can choke the machine at the finest grind setting.  If you can not do this then there are some other things to check.


BillC
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 693
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 5:55pm
Subject: Re: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

billc Said:

One thing to check is if you can choke the machine at the finest grind setting.  If you can not do this then there are some other things to check.


BillC

Posted May 8, 2013 link

I can tell you that I have choked the machine in the recent past. One issue I have had in the past is that I can adjust my grind to get a decent shot, come in the next day, use the same grind and tamping technique and get a gusher. That might possibly point to a change in pressures from one shot the next, but I have not been able to see that kind of variation testing it with the pressure gauge. I have tested it about 5 times and the results are all similar. I still plan on connecting my gauge to compressed air and making sure it is accurate (not enough hours in a day).
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billc
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 131
Location: Seattle, Washington
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: CC1 - GS - GS3 - GB5
Grinder: Baratza - Mazzer-Marzocco
Drip: My own Creation
Posted Thu May 9, 2013, 7:51am
Subject: Re: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

Dean,
Thanks for the info.  I just wanted to cover the bases on this one.  I have done a bunch of trouble shooting with others and found that it was impossible to choke the machine with the grinder they were using.  It turned out that there were two reasons; 1, grinder was not capable of grinding fine enough and 2. The coffee was old enough that even at the finest setting is still allowed water to flow through like crazy.

The pressure from the machine will not vary that much.  There could be a point when something is wrong and the pressure changes but it will probably stay that way and not vary that much.  Typically the OPV's give fairly consistent results.  Not to say that your case is an exception to the rule.  There could also be a pump issue but it sounds from your results that it is performing properly.



BillC
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 693
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu May 9, 2013, 10:49am
Subject: Re: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

billc Said:

Dean,
...... There could also be a pump issue but it sounds from your results that it is performing properly.



BillC

Posted May 9, 2013 link

Thank you! I have a gauge screwed right onto the portafilter, so the gauge itself is blanking off the flow. I think the real answer is to verify that my gauge is correct since we know the gauge is reading considerably lower than it should.  I made it out to my shop last night and was going to hook the gauge to compressed air and compare it to some other gauges I have, but I lacked the correct fittings to make the connection so I will do that in the next few days.

I do know that the 3 way valve is not leaking during the blank off test and I also know that the pressure valve is opening and relieving excess pressure back to the tank during the blank off test. Also, you may remember, I have had issues with the steam wand leaking water (in the past) when it was not supposed too, but it does not appear to be leaking water during the blank off test either. All of that sounds good, so maybe my gauge is bad.... but the gauge is brand new. I will test it just to make sure.
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myallawala
Senior Member
myallawala
Joined: 25 Dec 2012
Posts: 86
Location: San Antonio, TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Mazzer Major & Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama Burner
Drip: Hario V60 & Chemex
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu May 9, 2013, 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Is 4.75 to 5.25 bars enough brew pressure on a CC1?
 

billc Said:

Dean,
Thanks for the info.  I just wanted to cover the bases on this one.  I have done a bunch of trouble shooting with others and found that it was impossible to choke the machine with the grinder they were using.  It turned out that there were two reasons; 1, grinder was not capable of grinding fine enough and 2. The coffee was old enough that even at the finest setting is still allowed water to flow through like crazy.

The pressure from the machine will not vary that much.  There could be a point when something is wrong and the pressure changes but it will probably stay that way and not vary that much.  Typically the OPV's give fairly consistent results.  Not to say that your case is an exception to the rule.  There could also be a pump issue but it sounds from your results that it is performing properly.



BillC

Posted May 9, 2013 link

Sorry to use this thread, but Bill, has your e-mail changed? I tried getting in touch about something with no response.. it's been a few weeks. Thinkin' I might have gotten the wrong e-mail.
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