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Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
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hjkelly
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Jan 2013
Posts: 17
Location: Raleigh, NC
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Oscar
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Tue May 7, 2013, 7:02am
Subject: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

I'm looking to buy my second espresso machine, but it's my first real one (sorry, Delonghi :).

My situation/skills:
- My taste buds aren't refined, but I'd like to train myself in the nuances of straight shots
- I want to get a lot better at texturing microfoam

On my mind:
- Crossland CC1
- Breville Dual Boiler
- Nuova Simonelli Oscar

My thinking was that the CC1 and BDB would help me develop my taste for espresso: they're timed, so I can keep that parameter the same, then tweak something like temperature or preinfusion. I kind of prefer the BDB because of the simultaneous steaming and the auto-on feature.

Meanwhile, I've run across the Oscar a few times, and I'm starting to wonder if the temperature/timing consistency is all that important. I was initially turned off by the notion of cooling flushes and whatnot, but if it makes a great shot and recovers faster, maybe I can learn that way. Also, the steam seems about twice as fast as the other two, and I'll probably appreciate that more over the next couple years.

Thoughts?

 
-Harrison
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,036
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Tue May 7, 2013, 9:30am
Subject: Re: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

welcome to coffee geek! I chose Oscar because of used price and steampower. I ended up spending 1k for both machine and grinder.  New I probably would have looked at Cc1 and cuadra at 1st in coffee.  (spelling I am on my phone) I knew I liked milk drinks so large boiler was important to me.
Click Here (www.1st-line.com)

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,854
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 4:03am
Subject: Re: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

hello and welcome.

My personal opinion would be to go with the Oscar, it out classes either of those other machines by a great margin.

Any machine needs to be flushed so don't let that small detail complicate matters. Any machine needs to be flushed from spent grounds or to warm or cool the group head before each shot so the only variable in the process is how long to flush machine for. A heat exchanger machine usually only requires a few ounces of water so that at most you are talking about perhaps a second or two more of a flush then on either of the other machines.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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tinytot2
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Wisconsin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar
Grinder: Vario W
Drip: Breville YouBrew
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 7:24am
Subject: Re: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

... I chose Oscar because of used price and steampower. I ended up spending 1k for both machine and grinder.  ... I knew I liked milk drinks so large boiler was important to me.

Posted May 7, 2013 link

Same here.  Oscar is in transit to arrive to me today :)

The HX cooling flush idea intimidated me at first, until I realized I already do that to heat up the group head and then to clean the spent grounds from my Starbucks Barista.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,389
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 7:28am
Subject: Re: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

Don't forget the grinder, your Capresso Infinity won't be near good enough, not capable of grinding for espresso machines like these. Only works for ones like Delonghi with pressurized portafilters. There's a big price difference in the machines listed, plus grinder, so you have to figure out what your looking to spend.
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hjkelly
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Jan 2013
Posts: 17
Location: Raleigh, NC
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Oscar
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 8:47am
Subject: Re: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

So, it sounds none of you wish you could hit the same temperature with each shot, or use preinfusion or programmed shot time?

CMIN Said:

Don't forget the grinder, your Capresso Infinity won't be near good enough, not capable of grinding for espresso machines like these. Only works for ones like Delonghi with pressurized portafilters. There's a big price difference in the machines listed, plus grinder, so you have to figure out what your looking to spend.

Posted May 8, 2013 link

Right, I'm planning on getting a Vario to go with this.

 
-Harrison
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tinytot2
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Wisconsin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar
Grinder: Vario W
Drip: Breville YouBrew
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 8:52am
Subject: Re: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

hjkelly Said:

So, it sounds none of you wish you could hit the same temperature with each shot, or use preinfusion or programmed shot time?

Posted May 8, 2013 link

HX machines are pretty temp stable, pre-infusion wasn't high on my list, and I don't really care for programmed shot time.

EDIT:  I wanted to add that I used to care about programmed shot time, until I realized each shot is different and that I'd rather have more manual control.
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tinytot2
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Wisconsin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar
Grinder: Vario W
Drip: Breville YouBrew
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 9:06am
Subject: Re: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

Not sure if this would work for pre-infusion, but could you push the brew button for one second, release it, wait for a few seconds, and push the button in to continue brewing?
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,389
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 9:09am
Subject: Re: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

hjkelly Said:

So, it sounds none of you wish you could hit the same temperature with each shot, or use preinfusion or programmed shot time?



Right, I'm planning on getting a Vario to go with this.

Posted May 8, 2013 link

I own a CC1, so yeh I do lol. Love it. Don't use the programmed shot time and would never get an higher end machine that works off volume dosing as well either, but I use the on screen timer to time the shots i.e. with preinfusion and dwell shot starts dripping around 10 seconds so I know to stop it between 35-40 seconds on the screen for a 25-30 second extraction. But an hx or double boiler is a step up, both in performance and price. But at the CC1s price tag there isn't a better machine in it's class, far outperforms the Silvia, SCG even did a comparo with milk drinks and it was only like a minute or two off the pace of the Oscar doing a bunch of drinks, the Silvia was far far behind.

If your looking around the 1k range as well, you can consider the La Nuova Cuadra. Oscar is a great machine as well especially for an entry h/x, I just wish they did it in metal vs the ugly plastic casing, would look way out of place in my kitchen.

And the Vario will be perfect for whatever machine you get.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,854
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Features/consistency vs. traditional HX
 

hjkelly Said:

So, it sounds none of you wish you could hit the same temperature with each shot, or use preinfusion or programmed shot time?



Right, I'm planning on getting a Vario to go with this.

Posted May 8, 2013 link

Traditional HX machines are pretty darn temp stable, much much MUCH more than any SBDU could hope to be, even with PID in MHO.
I get perfectly fine shots time after time.

Pre infusion, in a machine with E61 is passive and mechanical, you get it every time you make a shot so I am not sure where your questions came from.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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