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Giotto Problem
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Giotto Problem  
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timmangan
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Michigan
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:11am
Subject: Giotto Problem
 

Hey guys,

I have an ECM Giotto, the machine has been nothing but awesome, however, I have ran into a problem with it.

I made two shots, one after the other, perfect, i went to pull a third shot and there was significantly less pressure at the brew head, then less, then less. I figured that it was time to descale so maybe that would fix and blockages, but as I was descaling, my jug of descaling solution ran low and the pump sucked in a bunch of froth from it. After that, the pump still hummed, but didnt pump, not i cant get te pump to suck in water.

There is still no pressure to the brew head either, even when I manually fill the boiler throught the pressure release on top of it.

Hmmm, any ideas? I have contemplated buying a new pump, only $50, but Im not sure why there was no pressure to the brew group (Steam wand and water pipe are fine).

I have this for sale so want to make sure that it is in tip top shape for whover buys it.

Thoughts?
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SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 506
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 2:13pm
Subject: Re: Giotto Problem
 

If the return hose (The hose in your watertank that isn't sucking up water) is dumping watur furiously back to your water reservoir whenever the pump is on, then either your relief valve is stuck open (And free-flowing after the descale) OR there is a blockage elsewhere and water can't get through the brew circuit.

If the pump sounds like it's trying, but isn't moving any water through the brew circuit or over the relief, then the pump is probably too weak to do anything.

I strongly suspect the pump, too. The little vibrating pumps do die eventually. If you are already opening the machine to check things you could check the pump directly with it disconnected from other things. That curving, white hose (Harder than rubber) that goes from the pump to the T fitting under the boiler can be removed from the T and you can check to see if it is pumping water at least that far. Block it with your thumb and see if it is still able to overcome the back pressure and spray forth.
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timmangan
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Michigan
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 9:40am
Subject: Re: Giotto Problem
 

My return hose has nothing coming out of it. I looked inside the brass section it connects to and there is a red, rubber filling in there. I'm assuming this is normal but wasn't expecting that?

The pump is sucking through water, but bet slowly. I have check 90% of all fittings and hoses, no blockages.

The pump hums lightly, not furiously like it used to. I took the pump apart, no blockages

I'm getting water and steam trough stem and water want, but only steam through brew head, no water.

The pump is the only thing I can think of buy don't want to replace it if it won't fix the problem.

Thoughts?
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steamer
Senior Member
steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 901
Location: socal
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus IV R
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-B Baratza...
Vac Pot: Krubs Moka Brew, vacPot
Drip: TechV, and many more
Roaster: Hottop
Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 10:46am
Subject: Re: Giotto Problem
 

If your getting good water flow thru the water wand, your pump sounds like it is working . Have you taken apart your group head, your clogging maybe from water pressure forced into the group head, where as the steam just might make it thru. I would clean the group head as it seems thats where the the clogging is.
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timmangan
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Michigan
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 5:11pm
Subject: Re: Giotto Problem
 

I have taken everything apart down to the boiler and nothing is, or at least seems, to be clogged.

I cannot figure this out.

The pump does run, but it only hums lightly and sucks through water extremely slowly.

This is killing me!!!
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,462
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 5:26pm
Subject: Re: Giotto Problem
 

The steam and water wand flow has nothing to do with the pump, hot water is forced out of the boiler by the pressure of steam.

Either your inlet tube is blocked, or your pump is failing and descaling it was the last straw.
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timmangan
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Michigan
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 5:28pm
Subject: Re: Giotto Problem
 

Ok, I'll order another tomorrow.

Update on the way :)
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,462
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Apr 29, 2013, 5:49am
Subject: Re: Giotto Problem
 

timmangan Said:

Ok, I'll order another tomorrow.

Update on the way :)

Posted April 28, 2013 link

It could be scale in the group, but even if your pump is OK, it was probably of an age where a new pump won't hurt, especially if you are selling it.
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timmangan
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Michigan
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue May 7, 2013, 9:58am
Subject: Re: Giotto Problem
 

ok, new pump ordered, delivered, and installed.

The pump is pumping water through like it should, but not a whole lot of pressure is coming through the group head still.

when i lift the lever up half way for pre-infusion purposes, all that comes out is steam, then when i pull the lever the whole way up it releases water, but not as much as it used to when it was running fine.

Also when the pump pumps, it isnt as loud as it used to be. I guess this could be a good thing, but it sounds like something else isnt working, but I dont know what!!!

The steam and water wands work fine, the machine also loses pressure a lot quicker now than it did previously.

hmmm, i can still pull a shot, but not much crema, looks pretty weak, is pretty thin, not thick and creamy like it should be.

Any miracle cures?

if not, what do i need to do to get this thing pulling like it should.

P.S. On a positive note, im learning a lot about the maching and how everything works, it actually is pretty fun and insightful :)
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timmangan
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Michigan
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed May 8, 2013, 5:37am
Subject: Re: Giotto Problem
 

ok, quick update, the pump is pumping well, it making the noise it should, im not sure if it just had to get water through it, or just spend some more time with his new friend, but its working well.

In terms of the weak shot, my bad, I only discovered this morning that my 3yr old has also taken to the art of espresso and has been adjusting the grind settings on my vario. The little legend still has work to do, was making it way to coarse, but im glad he shares my passion.

The only issue now is in the brew group. When i life the lever half way for preinfusion, all i get is steam.

It does still make a good shot, just lacking inthe preinfusion, granted, im not actually sure what it should look like to begin with, i just assume its more than steam.

The lack of pressure isnt an issue, it does drop when pulling a shot, but bounces right back to where it should be when im done pulling.

Any thoughts on the preinfusion?
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