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carz07
Senior Member
carz07
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 211
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Bodum Bistro,...
Drip: V60, Phin, Bonmac, Ame. Drip
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 5:11am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

how many grams is the bdb's basket:

single basket? max dose?

double bakset? max dose?

thanks

 
Travel the world with a cup of coffee
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MattOwn
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Savannah
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Looking
Grinder: Vario
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 6:00am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

jchung Said:

FYI... I just returned from BBB. They accepted my 20% off coupon for the BDB. The final price was a couple $$$ less than the order at WLL because the BBB order includes shipping and taxes. The guy said they had to charge shipping since its an item they don't carry in that particular store.

Joo

Posted April 26, 2013 link

I may go that route next week, myself. Please let us know if yours is a /B, when it arrives.
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1stline
Senior Member
1stline
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 499
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Undisclosed
Grinder: Indisclosed
Vac Pot: Bodum Electric
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 6:30am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

biochemgawd Said:

sigh. How many BDBs do each of you have?

The funny thing is that I was trying to encourage the poster to check out the options in that price range such as the Nuevo Era Cuadra.

You are trolls, plain and simple. And I am out.

Posted April 25, 2013 link

Hi All,

I actually have not kept track of this long thread as 1st-line currently does not sell Breville, but some spillover from here into the Cuadra thread caught my attention to come over here.

First and foremost, I am delighted to see a lot of activity here. However, after reading the last several pages, there is some speculation, by some BDB owners, of comparisons of the BDB to other machines with relation to build quality, price, features, etc. Mostly, this is ONLY on paper. It is only fair that owners of the other machines point out differences when speculations are made. This is mostly fair balance and is fair for BDB owners chiming in other threads where the BDB is mentioned. For example, what if there was a DB machine with more features than the BDB sold for $699. Wouldn't BDB owners want the ability to chime in on the discussion if the BDB was mentioned and add fair balance?

Although 'other machine' owners never owned a BDB, the vice versa can also be true... owners of the BDB never owned the 'other machines' to warrant a comparison or even suggest one in any fashion. Therefore, comparing one machine to other machine can lead to other owners to chime in with fair balance. This keeps it away from a one sided discussion, which is inherent in product reviews. Healthy discussions lead readers to a fair balanced, inferred conclusion of the topics at hand. To not have fair balance only leads to a one-sided discussion that can be become suspect.

I have helped many manufacturers design and improve espresso machines. I also have used many espresso machines, from single capsule, to traditional, to superautomatic, and from home machines to office models to those used in commercial environments. In fact, I have also briefly used the BDB on more than one occasion and more than one location. Like many other brands and models, it is a good machine. Like every other machine, it has its strong points and its weak points. ALL espresso machines have both strong and weak points. And, at the time of this writing, I can not comment on a BDB's internals as I have never ripped one apart to see how one is made internally.

There was a post about Italian machines piling up in a basement of a coffee shop due to reliability issues. I can say with certainty, the owner of these machines did not maintain them. I have customers who purchased machines (home, office, and commercial) over 10 years ago, and they still work fine. All espresso machines need to be maintained and serviced throughout its useful life. If not, it will end up in some basement - no matter who manufactured it.

When I visited Breville at the SCAA exhibition in Boston earlier this month, I asked the salesperson who was their target competitors for their BDB machines. I was surprised to learn it was not the Italian counterparts as speculated here. It was superautomatics. I was shocked as I thought they were comparing their machines to the Europeans. Breville's focus is to make better espresso than a superautomatic and automate as much as possible so the machine would be 'as easy to use as' a superautomatic. This is why a new machine to be released soon will have a built in grinder and auto tamper for the portafilter.

Lastly, how was the taste of the coffee out of their machines? At SCAA, two different baristas extracted quite beautiful looking espresso shots from two different models using 2 different and popular coffee beans from two well known roasters. Just to note, I pick up sour notes in espresso very, very quickly. Both espresso shots had a little too much sourness for my taste. Problem was easily solved. Raise the boiler temp up just a little. As I always say, coffee is like music. One person's heart is on jazz while another person's is on rap. Who has the better music? As an attorney would always answer, 'It depends!" The same goes for espresso machines when making comparisons.

 
Sincerely,
Jim Piccinich
Business Partner
1st-line Equipment, LLC
www.1st-line.com

Follow us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/1stline
Twitter: http://twitter.com/1stline
Blog: http://1st-line.blogspot.com/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/1stlineespresso
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carz07
Senior Member
carz07
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 211
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Bodum Bistro,...
Drip: V60, Phin, Bonmac, Ame. Drip
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 8:04am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

to those using vst on a stock portafilter not a naked

which do you recommend? ridged or ridgeless?

thanks

 
Travel the world with a cup of coffee
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donner
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2013
Posts: 34
Location: Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 8:43am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

1stline Said:

Hi All,
There was a post about Italian machines piling up in a basement of a coffee shop due to reliability issues. I can say with certainty, the owner of these machines did not maintain them. I have customers who purchased machines (home, office, and commercial) over 10 years ago, and they still work fine. All espresso machines need to be maintained and serviced throughout its useful life. If not, it will end up in some basement - no matter who manufactured it.

Posted April 27, 2013 link

In the course of looking for a new machine, I recently saw the backroom/basement of two specialty operations.  I was looking for a good quality used machine, and the owners showed me what they had available.  No doubt the machines collecting dust there could again make good coffee.  A number of the machines were partially disassembled.  Several had broken or leaking boilers, and they needed general refurbishing; the repairs could cost more than the machines were worth.

The problem may be that many consumers want something new and shiny to put out on the counter.  A ten year old machine of commercial quality may be built to last, if repaired and maintained when it needs it, but it may not fit into the decor of modern kitchens.  While I like the industrial look of many of the new Italian machines, my wife much prefers the appearance of the Breville BDB.

I am surprised at your comment that Breville designed the BDB to compete with the more automated machines.  I suspect that many of us would not have bought the BDB if it were an automatic.
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LatteDude
Senior Member
LatteDude
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Brentwood, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: BES900XL/B (BDB)
Grinder: Vario-W
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 8:49am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Hi Jim (1stLine),

Thanks for the thoughtful and informative post.  When you were at SCAA talking to Breville, did you hear anything about an updated BES900XL that would allow for home descaling?  Thanks for your time.
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biochemgawd
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: BDB
Grinder: Vario
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 8:54am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

1stline Said:

Hi All,

I actually have not kept track of this long thread as 1st-line currently does not sell Breville, but some spillover from here into the Cuadra thread caught my attention to come over here.

Posted April 27, 2013 link

OK, I tried but I couldn't stay away from Coffeegeek for very long. I agree 100% with your post Jim - and I appreciate the time you took to write it. I think that a healthy discussion of the facts (and opinions) is exactly why this forum is here.

First, regarding the troll comments - I meant that in the internet sense of the word: from Wikipedia "In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

I apologize to those users who I referred to as trolls - perhaps you were not trolling this thread on purpose. That said, there are several users who do not own BDBs who consistently and repeatedly post in a needlessly negative and non-constructive way. This contributes to a toxic environment for discussion and raises the frustration level for those that are here to learn and contribute.

In the end, these are machines that make coffee. Something we are all passionate about (addicted to). I am very glad that this forum is here at all - what a fantastic resource.

John
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JJC
Senior Member
JJC
Joined: 2 Apr 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Santa Barbara
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville 900Xl, Saeco...
Grinder: Compak K3
Roaster: Behmor, Nesco
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:40am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

First line Jim,

Really, reading a few pages here doesn't get you the flavor of what has been happening.
Your defense of the cuadra owners and others posting here is tone-deaf to say the least, in my opinion.

How would you feel if every time someone posted a problem on the cuadra forum - real problems that are discussed there such as a leaky drain tray, steaming problems, or stinky boilers - several BDB owners jumped on to trash the cuadra for its antiquated design, higher price or whatever. It would make the cuadra forum much less useful for the cuadra owners. These sorts of machine "comparisons" by non owners have been endlessly repeated here on the BDB thread. That is a major reason this thread is so long. Fortunately for owners of other machines BDB owners are not aggressive believers/promoters of their own machines on other machine threads.

Thanks for the info on Breville's plans. Obviously they are looking at the bigger market.
"Real" espresso machines are a tiny fraction of the market. Superautos are huge in comparison.
If they can make a more automated machine that can make espresso that tastes as good as a traditional Italian machine, more power to them.
You may be attached to the mystique of coffee but at least some of us just want the coffee and find the Italian Coffee Ritual as meaningless as
the Japanese Tea Ritual. And that is way more so for the Significant Others.
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MerleApAmber
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Joined: 12 Nov 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES920xl
Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto
Vac Pot: Yuma
Drip: Pour over: Melita Ceramic
Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:28am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

1stline Said:

When I visited Breville at the SCAA exhibition in Boston earlier this month, I asked the salesperson who was their target competitors for their BDB machines. I was surprised to learn it was not the Italian counterparts as speculated here. It was superautomatics. I was shocked as I thought they were comparing their machines to the Europeans. Breville's focus is to make better espresso than a superautomatic and automate as much as possible so the machine would be 'as easy to use as' a superautomatic. This is why a new machine to be released soon will have a built in grinder and auto tamper for the portafilter.

Posted April 27, 2013 link

Mr. Piccinich,
A pleasure to make your acquaintance, and thank you for the notes from an industry insider. In interest of the remark above, I tend to fit the Breville sales person's statement of objective with the new machine (the Oracle) they are demonstrating. If that is the case, and they are moving toward the superauto market: I can see doing the basics well, in development of stable and dependable process via the 900xl a very well thought out intermediate step.  One which has the side benefit of giving the enthusiast public a remarkable machine at a very enticing price point.

If the premise holds true Breville is getting it's spurs by building something they can sell today and do their core group manufacturing and durability research at the same time. We should be seeing a very remarkable product show up in the next 3 to 5 years. Maybe 7 to 10 depending on how well they wade through the problems of clearing and handling waste materials, product flow group hygiene, and durability goals testing of those additional groups.  These last considerations appeared to be the toughest objectives to do well from my short experience with a few of the superautos I'd tried from Saeco and Jura.

It is interesting looking at a marketer/manufacturer block who are heading that direction because it hosts the conversation of designing toward 'old world' objectives, as many of our current machine manufacturers do...  Vice that of a company looking to future goals which include, not only the consumer market, but also high end commercial objectives where high production and stable quality assurance of a relatively (human) hands off process are desired and highly valued.  It seems a true demonstration of steam-punk meets NASA.  

I find myself in awe - being able to witness the development of a company of the modern era.
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slybarman
Senior Member
slybarman
Joined: 3 Nov 2011
Posts: 366
Location: usa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:21pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

1stline Said:

Hi All,

I actually have not kept track of this long thread as 1st-line currently does not sell Breville, but some spillover from here into the Cuadra thread caught my attention to come over here.

First and foremost, I am delighted to see a lot of activity here. However, after reading the last several pages, there is some speculation, by some BDB owners, of comparisons of the BDB to other machines with relation to build quality, price, features, etc. Mostly, this is ONLY on paper. It is only fair that owners of the other machines point out differences when speculations are made. This is mostly fair balance and is fair for BDB owners chiming in other threads where the BDB is mentioned. For example, what if there was a DB machine with more features than the BDB sold for $699. Wouldn't BDB owners want the ability to chime in on the discussion if the BDB was mentioned and add fair balance?

Although 'other machine' owners never owned a BDB, the vice versa can also be true... owners of the BDB never owned the 'other machines' to warrant a comparison or even suggest one in any fashion. Therefore, comparing one machine to other machine can lead to other owners to chime in with fair balance. This keeps it away from a one sided discussion, which is inherent in product reviews. Healthy discussions lead readers to a fair balanced, inferred conclusion of the topics at hand. To not have fair balance only leads to a one-sided discussion that can be become suspect.

I have helped many manufacturers design and improve espresso machines. I also have used many espresso machines, from single capsule, to traditional, to superautomatic, and from home machines to office models to those used in commercial environments. In fact, I have also briefly used the BDB on more than one occasion and more than one location. Like many other brands and models, it is a good machine. Like every other machine, it has its strong points and its weak points. ALL espresso machines have both strong and weak points. And, at the time of this writing, I can not comment on a BDB's internals as I have never ripped one apart to see how one is made internally.

There was a post about Italian machines piling up in a basement of a coffee shop due to reliability issues. I can say with certainty, the owner of these machines did not maintain them. I have customers who purchased machines (home, office, and commercial) over 10 years ago, and they still work fine. All espresso machines need to be maintained and serviced throughout its useful life. If not, it will end up in some basement - no matter who manufactured it.

When I visited Breville at the SCAA exhibition in Boston earlier this month, I asked the salesperson who was their target competitors for their BDB machines. I was surprised to learn it was not the Italian counterparts as speculated here. It was superautomatics. I was shocked as I thought they were comparing their machines to the Europeans. Breville's focus is to make better espresso than a superautomatic and automate as much as possible so the machine would be 'as easy to use as' a superautomatic. This is why a new machine to be released soon will have a built in grinder and auto tamper for the portafilter.

Lastly, how was the taste of the coffee out of their machines? At SCAA, two different baristas extracted quite beautiful looking espresso shots from two different models using 2 different and popular coffee beans from two well known roasters. Just to note, I pick up sour notes in espresso very, very quickly. Both espresso shots had a little too much sourness for my taste. Problem was easily solved. Raise the boiler temp up just a little. As I always say, coffee is like music. One person's heart is on jazz while another person's is on rap. Who has the better music? As an attorney would always answer, 'It depends!" The same goes for espresso machines when making comparisons.

Posted April 27, 2013 link

Good points Jim. Like you, JJCs posts in the cuadra thread lead me to wondering what all the fuss about the BDB is about. And for the record, I have never known you to be "tone deaf". What you would you say the BDBs strong and weak points were? Do you feel it represents good value?
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