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Another DB Quickmill
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Another DB...  
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gz20tt
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 93
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Vac Pot: Bodum
Posted Thu Jul 4, 2013, 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

Steaming is not a problem,

So yes, it steams fine and maintains/increases the pressure during steaming, giving great microfoam, class it as a moderately paced steamer, BUT able to maintain and actually increase pressure during steaming!

One recommendation.....remove the no burn insert for improved steaming. UK models should come with 2 wands, one without (fitted) and one with (in the accessories box)

Posted July 4, 2013 link

Thankyou very much Dave.
That's incredibly helpful.

Steaming pace isn't so much an issue for my modest home use - good microfoam is.
If we're entertaining I'll have to see how it matches with my workflow/speed - I expect the DB can outrun me anyway.
I'd probably play with tips first before taking out the no-burn insert.
I have no idea if an Aus-spec import will have 2 wands or not.

As an aside - instead of the silicon sleeve you showed:
http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/misc/steam-arm-sleeves
The clip looks nice and neat - probably available elsewhere for anyone interested.

Do you have the revised PID settings available?
It'd be nice to be able to check that upon arrival.
The revision that you and Chris talked about IS just settings correct?

I'm about to pull the trigger on this and may be one of the first in Aus to have one :)
I'd like to add that having read a bunch of your reviews over at Bella Barista, that you giving the thumbs up for this machine has really swayed my opinion. Being in Science/engineering myself - your style of review resonates with what I want to see. No hype - just facts and great insight.

Thanks again.

Frankie

<EDIT>
QM Vetrano 2B Mod0995P ordered!
I was quoted ~10 days for delivery - so I guess it's on it'll be on it's way from the factory early next week.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,433
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Jul 4, 2013, 7:49pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Zevi Said:

In a previous post here Chris said that there will be modified PID settings.
It seems like there's some agreement that the steaming performance of the yes-burn wand is better. I'll be interested to know if anyone who converted the wand made any before/after comparison (i.e., how much quicker it steams?) I know for sure that pulling the insulating tube from the wand is going to be the first mod I plan for my V2B !

Posted July 4, 2013 link

I tested it and it made an improvement of approx 17-20%
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,433
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Jul 4, 2013, 7:58pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

gz20tt Said:

As an aside - instead of the silicon sleeve you showed:
http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/misc/steam-arm-sleeves
The clip looks nice and neat - probably available elsewhere for anyone interested.

Do you have the revised PID settings available?
It'd be nice to be able to check that upon arrival.
The revision that you and Chris talked about IS just settings correct?

Posted July 4, 2013 link


The clip looks very good, especially as the OD of the steam arm is 11mm

There was a revised PID, reprogrammed. I had the original, then they sent me another which I fitted. CC got his with the revised and I will assume they will only ship with the revised. I have the settings I recommend for 240V available, just PM me for them. QM seemed to think Gicar knew best and were reluctant to change the presets. It's very annoying, because this means some users will have standard factory presets that are very poor and may not give performance representative of the machines capabilities. All UK machines will have settings as I have specified.

Glad you like the reviews....must send them the review for the Vetrano DB (it's going to be called the Verona in the UK). Good luck with the machine, I am sure you will love it.
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gz20tt
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 93
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Vac Pot: Bodum
Posted Thu Jul 4, 2013, 8:26pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

There was a revised PID, reprogrammed. I had the original, then they sent me another which I fitted. CC got his with the revised and I will assume they will only ship with the revised. I have the settings I recommend for 240V available, just PM me for them. QM seemed to think Gicar knew best and were reluctant to change the presets. It's very annoying, because this means some users will have standard factory presets that are very poor and may not give performance representative of the machines capabilities. All UK machines will have settings as I have specified.

Glad you like the reviews....must send them the review for the Vetrano DB (it's going to be called the Verona in the UK). Good luck with the machine, I am sure you will love it.

Posted July 4, 2013 link

Thanks Dave,
I'll PM you when I've received it and have it set up.
It will be interesting to see if the Aus-spec version gets the UK version presets since we're both on 240V - and how different they may be from the US version at 110V. I'm also interested in quantifying the difference from "stock" to your settings should mine come that way for my own benefit and to satisfy the tech-nerd in me.

I hope that Bella publishes your Vetrano/Verona DB review quickly. I'm itching to read it.
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Zevi
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 114
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 6:03am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

gz20tt Said:

I'd like to add that having read a bunch of your {Z:Dave's} reviews over at Bella Barista, that you giving the thumbs up for this machine has really swayed my opinion. Being in Science/engineering myself - your style of review resonates with what I want to see. No hype - just facts and great insight.

Posted July 4, 2013 link

I totally second that!

DavecUK Said:

I tested it and it made an improvement of approx 17-20%

Posted July 4, 2013 link

Thanks for that info! Of course, I take it that this is how much quicker it steams the milk; would it be fair to say that the quality of the microfoam is about the same with/without the insert tube?
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,433
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 6:51am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Zevi Said:

Thanks for that info! Of course, I take it that this is how much quicker it steams the milk; would it be fair to say that the quality of the microfoam is about the same with/without the insert tube?

Posted July 5, 2013 link

Yes it's about how fast it imparts energy into the milk....you want 3 things for ideal steaming of milk, good pressure, reasonable speed (not too fast or too slow, giving controllability at home for the smaller milk volumes usually used.

The 17-20% brings the speed into the correct range, the pressure is into the correct range.  Speedwise the milk doesn't have to be massively fast, jug blasting speed is difficult to control for many. Big commercial machines simply steam larger amounts, but often no faster than the smaller amounts steamed at home. However, with the steam insert, it seemed to be just OK, but slower than I personally prefer.

I firmly believe the speed of steaming affect the way the proteins in the milk coagulate, this in turn affects texture and sweetness.....but it is a complex relationship as it's also temperature dependent. Lets just say the Vetrano DB is fine for home use and is excellent at steaming enough milk in one go for 2 lattes (430 ml) in a decent time frame and at sufficient pressure.
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Fri Jul 5, 2013, 7:04am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

Yes it's about how fast it imparts energy into the milk....you want 3 things for ideal steaming of milk, good pressure, reasonable speed (not too fast or too slow, giving controllability at home for the smaller milk volumes usually used.

The 17-20% brings the speed into the correct range, the pressure is into the correct range.  Speedwise the milk doesn't have to be massively fast, jug blasting speed is difficult to control for many. Big commercial machines simply steam larger amounts, but often no faster than the smaller amounts steamed at home. However, with the steam insert, it seemed to be just OK, but slower than I personally prefer.

I firmly believe the speed of steaming affect the way the proteins in the milk coagulate, this in turn affects texture and sweetness.....but it is a complex relationship as it's also temperature dependent. Lets just say the Vetrano DB is fine for home use and is excellent at steaming enough milk in one go for 2 lattes (430 ml) in a decent time frame and at sufficient pressure.

Posted July 5, 2013 link

Dave... Would you say HX machines are preferable for steaming? What is your opinion on choosing a DB over an HX? Do notice any differences in shot quality/taste with a PID as opposed to an HX with the humped temp profile?
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Rhinoevans
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 179
Location: Las Vegas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale S1, Starbucks...
Grinder: Rocky DL
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: N/A
Roaster: N/A
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 5:28am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

As much as I would love to but this machine, clearance under the counter seems to eliminate this one.  I think I am destined to own another La Spaziale, and the S1VII was the machine in the number one spot prior to finding this one from Quick Mill.  Good luck everyone
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sharky
Senior Member
sharky
Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Compak K3 Touch
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 6:06am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Rhinoevans Said:

As much as I would love to but this machine, clearance under the counter seems to eliminate this one.  I think I am destined to own another La Spaziale, and the S1VII was the machine in the number one spot prior to finding this one from Quick Mill.  Good luck everyone

Posted July 6, 2013 link


Sorry for your loss!  Your counters must be reaaaaallly low!  The QM Vetrano 2b looks like an incredible machine . . . however, the Spaziale is still decent.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 690
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Jul 6, 2013, 8:30am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Rhinoevans Said:

As much as I would love to but this machine, clearance under the counter seems to eliminate this one.

Posted July 6, 2013 link

How tall is it? I was assuming it was the same as the QM67 but I guess that might be a dangerous assumption. I have not seen any dimensional specs for the new model. This machine is on my very short list, but now that I apparently have my CC1 working, not sure I can justify buying one.... but nonetheless, I like the features and the looks.
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