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Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Yet another X vs...  
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,781
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 5:41am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

I am not going to advise to get or not to get a BDB but my money would not be spent on one.

I do not feel that the long term dependability is there and I do not like the limited serviceability built into the product. When a machine is built to a price point, the quality will suffer and it has not been out long enough to find out what parts will fail first.

If you wish to buy one, have a nice life and I hope everything comes up roses for you, I really do. I spend my money on dependable and proven equipment.

Have a GREAT day!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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1stline
Senior Member
1stline
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 496
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Undisclosed
Grinder: Indisclosed
Vac Pot: Bodum Electric
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:58pm
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

pfn Said:

PID on an HX is mostly useless. I would save the $300 and go with the semi-auto BZ07 w/o PID if you were leaning for that, why bother with the volumetric buttons--they do not aid in quality; pull until you get the quantity/quality you want, then turn off.

If your budget is $1500 w/ grinder, I'd go with the Cuadra+Vario package on 1st-line, altogether, your total would be $1450-1550 for either the Vario or Vario-W. The BZ07 would put you $300 over-budget. To aid in consistency, I would consider a $100 E61 thermometer, if you felt that was required later (for the Cuadra).

Ease of use, Vario-W and any of the machines mentioned probably have about the same ease of use. Grind, flush, dose, tamp, pull, cleanup. If one were to be considered easiest, maybe the CC1.

Posted April 11, 2013 link

Just some friendly food for thought....

The PID removes the smaller pressurstat which has a lower reliability rating then the PID controller. The volumetric controller is good for those who want to walk away during an extraction (ie getting the milk) or in a multi-user environment.

 
Sincerely,
Jim Piccinich
Business Partner
1st-line Equipment, LLC
www.1st-line.com

Follow us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/1stline
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1stline
Senior Member
1stline
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 496
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Undisclosed
Grinder: Indisclosed
Vac Pot: Bodum Electric
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 1:01pm
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

didiee Said:

Coffee has been a slow journey.  
Finally got to espresso, and I'm going skip Single boiler machine.
In my price range, the only dual boiler is Breville... not a fan of where it is constructed.
Brings me to the above three.

...

Posted April 10, 2013 link

I believe the CC1 is made in Taiwan.

 
Sincerely,
Jim Piccinich
Business Partner
1st-line Equipment, LLC
www.1st-line.com

Follow us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/1stline
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1stline
Senior Member
1stline
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 496
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Undisclosed
Grinder: Indisclosed
Vac Pot: Bodum Electric
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 1:07pm
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

calblacksmith Said:

I am not going to advise to get or not to get a BDB but my money would not be spent on one.

I do not feel that the long term dependability is there and I do not like the limited serviceability built into the product. When a machine is built to a price point, the quality will suffer and it has not been out long enough to find out what parts will fail first.

Posted April 15, 2013 link

We were at the SCAA show this past weekend, and Breville had a prototype machine where the boiler can be drained. Sorry, we only have the pic on our Facebook page. If you look really close behind the steam arm under the protective black grip, there is a small black section on the lower front panel where the connection is for draining.

 
Sincerely,
Jim Piccinich
Business Partner
1st-line Equipment, LLC
www.1st-line.com

Follow us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/1stline
Twitter: http://twitter.com/1stline
Blog: http://1st-line.blogspot.com/
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didiee
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Joined: 30 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: CT, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Apr 16, 2013, 6:15am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

calblacksmith Said:

I am not going to advise to get or not to get a BDB but my money would not be spent on one.

I do not feel that the long term dependability is there and I do not like the limited serviceability built into the product. When a machine is built to a price point, the quality will suffer and it has not been out long enough to find out what parts will fail first.

If you wish to buy one, have a nice life and I hope everything comes up roses for you, I really do. I spend my money on dependable and proven equipment.

Have a GREAT day!

Posted April 15, 2013 link

It was exciting and trying when it was 799 on Amazon... now the hope of getting it at that price has faded, maybe coming back to reality.  I think BDB is built more like consumer electronics, which I do and do not appreciate.... i am after all still driving a manual shift car, maybe I just do know how to adapt.

That issue aside, the reliability and non-serviceability does make me a little worried.  Not like I will be opening up my espresso machine for fun, but with that option taking away... feels a bit out of my control....  

Perhaps going back drawing board.....  

"Just some friendly food for thought....

The PID removes the smaller pressurstat which has a lower reliability rating then the PID controller. The volumetric controller is good for those who want to walk away during an extraction (ie getting the milk) or in a multi-user environment."

I think the volumetric would be very helpful esp for my other half.....  rather than waiting for that 30 seconds, she can walk away....

Any thoughts 1stline?  I am even thinking moving up to straight double boiler.....  darn it!
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didiee
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Joined: 30 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: CT, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Apr 16, 2013, 6:18am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

1stline Said:

I believe the CC1 is made in Taiwan.

Posted April 15, 2013 link

somehow I trust Taiwan better....
like i said before i am biased that way....

Also my better half had told me NO Breville yesterday, even if we had to pay a little premium.
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Iluvdabean
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Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,271
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Apr 16, 2013, 8:15am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

I completely feel the same way,and after one bad Breville five years ago, then seeing people on thier 2nd and 3rd BDB's I wouldnt buy one either even if it was half that price. Made in China isnt a plus for me. I am not sold on them.

calblacksmith Said:

I am not going to advise to get or not to get a BDB but my money would not be spent on one.

I do not feel that the long term dependability is there and I do not like the limited serviceability built into the product. When a machine is built to a price point, the quality will suffer and it has not been out long enough to find out what parts will fail first.

If you wish to buy one, have a nice life and I hope everything comes up roses for you, I really do. I spend my money on dependable and proven equipment.

Have a GREAT day!

Posted April 15, 2013 link

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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,031
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:26am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

I have met Bill of Crossland CC1 at a coffee show, he some times answers questions on this board..  I would get his machine over a Breville just based on that.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

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pfn
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 64
Location: Santa Clara, CA, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra II
Grinder: KA Proline w/ Mazzer Mini...
Posted Tue Apr 16, 2013, 1:19pm
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

I have met Bill of Crossland CC1 at a coffee show, he some times answers questions on this board..  I would get his machine over a Breville just based on that.

Posted April 16, 2013 link

Phil McKnight of Breville also posts here on occasion, as well as a recent hire that is filling in for Phil now that he's been promoted. (See the BDB owner's thread).

I thought the BDB is also made in taiwan, so if you're comparing quality based on country of manufacture, I think they're the same? The price difference is a large factor between the two, however, so the BDB probably isn't even in the running, I'd think.
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didiee
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: CT, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Apr 16, 2013, 1:45pm
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

pfn Said:

Phil McKnight of Breville also posts here on occasion, as well as a recent hire that is filling in for Phil now that he's been promoted. (See the BDB owner's thread).

I thought the BDB is also made in taiwan, so if you're comparing quality based on country of manufacture, I think they're the same? The price difference is a large factor between the two, however, so the BDB probably isn't even in the running, I'd think.

Posted April 16, 2013 link

I think it's China, at least that's what people have been saying in the forum.

Regardless, i've getting too much education/information to decide that i'm going for a double boiler.... so CC1 no longer in the running... and after too many heated and hated discussion BDB is out too.. (unless I can get it for 850)

Now just need to 1. find the money or  2. the courage to get something from Ebay from one of the less known retailer... (Brewtus can be had for 600 less....  probably too good to be true...)

Money is NOT a big issue, not to say I can have 2500 to spend with poor reliability.... but if any good deals comes along, I will snatch if I can.
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