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Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
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MerleApAmber
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900
Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto
Vac Pot: Yuma
Drip: bah-humbug
Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 8:36am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Park_Ridge_Dave Said:

The setting of the OPV limits the Maximum pressure that the machine goes to with a "blind" PF (rubber blank e.g.). When the pressure get above the set point, the valve opens to "dump" the excess pressure to the tray on the machine (e.g. the clean/flush cycles).

You really shouldn't set the OPV max pressure much below 10 bar. Otherwise the valve will function on almost every shot (i.e. OPV set to 9.25 bar). That will, almost certainly, shorten the service life of the OPV and lead to premature failure. Mine came from the factory set to about 10.25-10.5 bar.

Now when I make a shot I adjust Grind and Tamp to get a 9.0 bar (ideally) pressure drop across the charged basket (ymmv). The OPV should not have to open to regulate the pressure. The operator sets the pressure through the adjustment(s) to the charge. If the pressure is too high (i.e. 10 bar) you have too fine a grind or too hard a tamp. Conversely, if the shot pressure is too low, (i.e. 8.0 bard) you have too coarse a grind or too light a tamp.

Cheers,

Dave

[edited for to too mistake]

Posted April 15, 2013 link

I've let this go by in the past when seeing this discussion; I wanted to concur publicly, Dave is spot on with his evaluation of the objective of the over pressure relief valve. This is good engineering practice.  

Add, when we 'play' at making our daily espressos, it's an extra pat on the shoulder when we get our grind, mass, and tamp ;-)  Just-so.
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wjordan
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 20
Location: London, ON, Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Breville BEX900XL
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Precise
Roaster: Local - Hasbeans, London, ON
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 8:53am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

PrescottCR Said:

If you hold down the single or double button (without releasing it) you'll get a flush @ full pressure and this isn't supposed to add to your shot counter. Also, aborting a shot before 7 seconds will do the same from what I've read here.

As far as backflushing goes- Somewhere here or at CS the word was Phil recommended doing a back flush at the end of a session. No chemical, just water. I see some grinds when I do this, so I assume it does something good.

That's my understanding of it all. :)

Posted April 15, 2013 link

The wiggle? Is the wiggle necessary, or can I just install the plug in the PF and hold down the shot button ?

Thanks!
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MerleApAmber
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900
Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto
Vac Pot: Yuma
Drip: bah-humbug
Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 8:58am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

PrescottCR Said:

If you hold down the single or double button (without releasing it) you'll get a flush @ full pressure and this isn't supposed to add to your shot counter. Also, aborting a shot before 7 seconds will do the same from what I've read here.

As far as backflushing goes- Somewhere here or at CS the word was Phil recommended doing a back flush at the end of a session. No chemical, just water. I see some grinds when I do this, so I assume it does something good.

That's my understanding of it all. :)

Posted April 15, 2013 link

Richard! I didn't know that about the full pressure trigger on the volumetric buttons not counting up.  Kewl!
If you want to explore the depths of obsessive compulsive behaviors, I'll share:
- warm up to temperature
- blank and back flush with my double charge basket in my naked PF on the one cup button and let sit a moment.
- purge (one cup button) shot through to my espresso cup or rattleware 3 oz measure to warm the basket and cup.
- maybe a second full purge on the one cup - depending -
- grind beans
- quick < 5 second pop on the manual button, remove the PF, dry well, charge the basket, wdt, tamp and quickly replace
-draw the shot using the manual button pre-infusing until an indicated 1 bar or so, steam the milk and watch the indicated pressure / second timer for the numbers while eyeballing the honey
- build the milk drink or take the first breath and slurp(s) of espresso and then,
- dump, rinse pf, wipe the shower screen, quick flush, then restore the PF start again, or,
- place the rubber blank, snug the portafilter, and draw one or two (depending on what falls out of the screen when you look) full pressure back flushes on the two cup button.

</laugh

I mentioned - in this - I'm OC right?

I figure this way, all the buttons get nearly equal wear and tear.
...and, I do so love playing with my toy...
;> (hah! I finally put a soap opera post out! - wheeeee! )
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PrescottCR
Senior Member
PrescottCR
Joined: 19 Dec 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Prescott
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: Breville
Grinder: Baratza
Roaster: Diedrich
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 9:09am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

wjordan Said:

The wiggle? Is the wiggle necessary, or can I just install the plug in the PF and hold down the shot button ?

Thanks!

Posted April 15, 2013 link

I generally wiggle on the last back flush.

Why does that sound funny.....

Anyway, I back flush a couple times with the PF locked in, then dump out what's in the blank. Then wiggle for a few seconds a little as the pressure gets up to max. Then I shut off the machine.

To answer your question- I don't know if it's really necessary, it is how I was trained at CLI in Vermont. Those little grounds get everywhere so well, I think this helps get them out of places that you just can wipe/clean easily. Even with being meticulous about wiping the rim of the basket before a shot and flushing the group head I still give it a wiggle at the end.

Which REMINDS me- When I first got the Breville I noticed the rubber ring between the PF plastic handle and metal. Guess what that does? It stops the very hot water from running onto your hand while wiggling. At CLI (and every other training) we had to put a bar towel between your hand and the PF to not get burned.

Another example of real world usefulness!
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bendavis78
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Feb 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Frisco, TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 9:20am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Park_Ridge_Dave Said:

You really shouldn't set the OPV max pressure much below 10 bar. Otherwise the valve will function on almost every shot (i.e. OPV set to 9.25 bar). That will, almost certainly, shorten the service life of the OPV and lead to premature failure. Mine came from the factory set to about 10.25-10.5 bar.

Posted April 15, 2013 link

Is there any point, then, to adjusting OPV as long as it's *above* 10 bar? Why not just leave the OPV at 12 or 13?  Just a few posts ago someone suggested they set my OPV was set too high, because I said my shots were pulling at 11 bar. Is that bad advice?
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MerleApAmber
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900
Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto
Vac Pot: Yuma
Drip: bah-humbug
Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 9:20am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

PrescottCR Said:

I generally wiggle on the last back flush.

Why does that sound funny.....

Anyway, I back flush a couple times with the PF locked in, then dump out what's in the blank. Then wiggle for a few seconds a little as the pressure gets up to max. Then I shut off the machine.

To answer your question- I don't know if it's really necessary, it is how I was trained at CLI in Vermont. Those little grounds get everywhere so well, I think this helps get them out of places that you just can wipe/clean easily. Even with being meticulous about wiping the rim of the basket before a shot and flushing the group head I still give it a wiggle at the end.

Which REMINDS me- When I first got the Breville I noticed the rubber ring between the PF plastic handle and metal. Guess what that does? It stops the very hot water from running onto your hand while wiggling. At CLI (and every other training) we had to put a bar towel between your hand and the PF to not get burned.

Another example of real world usefulness!

Posted April 15, 2013 link

Hahahaha,
For the life of me, I couldn't remember what "wiggle" referred to!
Yes, last back flush works well as everything is as warm and wet as it will ever be - if it hasn't been cleared b'fore!
Oh,... and the dread portafilter "drops off the group all by it'self thingie?" Most of the time, dry basket rim = no problems if set to 'lock'
(I can still scald my fingers - even with the rubber ring :( )
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PrescottCR
Senior Member
PrescottCR
Joined: 19 Dec 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Prescott
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: Breville
Grinder: Baratza
Roaster: Diedrich
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 9:26am
Subject: OCD? OC Me...
 

That's pretty typical behavior for home espresso types!

Prolly a little overkill with the water, but hey- how does the espresso taste? The worst that you're doing is wasting a little water and in so doing, keeping your machine sparkly clean.

Love your use of the manual button! You don't read about people using it in this way, that is, according to the owner's manual, when you press & hold the manual button the brew head water is being let out at your pre-infusion setting. Once you let go of the manual button it will ramp up to full pressure. Which makes sense if you think about it. This way you can manually play with pre-infusion times. I think that will count as a shot if you go over 7 seconds. I'm posting that for others' benefit.

Here's another benefit of the Naked (or so called bottomless) PF- less thermal mass to worry about. What you have here is espresso going through your basket and into your cup, so no opportunity for more metal to rob heat from it on the journey. Personally- I hit things with spouts and drip water all over. So I like the bottomless.

I really like weighing the espresso pour. That, combined with the time & pressure helps me realize where a particular blend shines. Since the scale that I use for weighing the dose of ground espresso is small enough to fit under a shot glass it works double duty. Oh, here's another place where the bottomless works well- more clearance so I can fit all that under the PF comfortably.

Wait, MILK? Really? Ugh, I guesso...
I tease. I do milk occasionally too, and your way is actually better than mine. On my old commercial espresso machines I could finish the milk at the same time as the shot... but they had a little more umph in the steam boiler dept. My milk skills were never very strong, and now are minimal so I do that first. Generally enough for two 6oz lattes.

My only regret is that I can only tolerate about two espresso drinks in the morning without getting buzzy... I really enjoy pulling shots and tasting the results with my Breville when it's behaving well!
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MerleApAmber
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900
Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto
Vac Pot: Yuma
Drip: bah-humbug
Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 9:27am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

bendavis78 Said:

Is there any point, then, to adjusting OPV as long as it's *above* 10 bar? Why not just leave the OPV at 12 or 13?  Just a few posts ago someone suggested they set my OPV was set too high, because I said my shots were pulling at 11 bar. Is that bad advice?

Posted April 15, 2013 link

My take Ben, is it's good to limit the over pressure you may put on the puck, just because high pressure extraction may result in taste components you're not going to enjoy.  The pumps were spec'd (if I remember correctly) for 17 Bar; so they're not at risk - though one could argue lower loads > greater service life.  But, if you believe the gauge is nearly correct and use it for your tamp/charge and time calculus you're not going to be hitting those high numbers without intending to: blank flushing and such.

Breville did a wonderful customer service campaign when they accepted the user base's premise that 12 Bar was too much and 'we' wanted the OPVs set lower.  At the same time, they could have reasonably said: Works as designed. Get your skilz up! And in that, would have had a defensible argument before any court in the world. However, by agreeing to review every unit which the clientele reported as out of spec, they surely received valuable market data and durability testing feedback.

Again, my two coppers - YMMV.

-Chris
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PrescottCR
Senior Member
PrescottCR
Joined: 19 Dec 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Prescott
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: Breville
Grinder: Baratza
Roaster: Diedrich
Posted Mon Apr 15, 2013, 9:45am
Subject: OPV setting..
 

You know, I've been thinking about this.

Just so you know- I'm not sure, but I'll give you my thoughts on the OPV since I'm here & had my two shots...

My theory (which belongs to me, and is mine...) - According to those that know all about espresso (TTKAAE), 9 bar is THE amount of pressure that results in good espresso. The OPV only kicks in when I have loaded a basket that provides too much resistance to the water being pushed through it at 9 bar. But for the OPV, your pump could actually push up to 15 bar. So the OPV is trying to fix an 'error' on my part. My combo of dose & grind & tamp provided too much resistance. So, if I dose properly, at the proper grind, with the proper tamp my gauge will read 9 bar and the shot will take the 'correct' amount of time for the correct and my socks will come off when I drink it. There would be no need for an OPV if I were getting everything right all the time.

The problem with that thinking is- not everyone agrees on correct volumes, times, and most importantly- taste. I'm not sure I could pour a ristretto in ~30 without the OPV helping me. When I pull a normale I can generally keep the pressure between 9-10bar. A lungo would probably be more like 8...

So, MY thought on the OPV setting is- it IS important sometimes, particularly if you are a fan of ristrettos. If you're pulling normales, I bet it is less important. So why not leave it set around 10.5?

As I am finishing this reply I see that Chris has chimed in as well on this. I think we are expressing the same idea too. He makes a good point about using the blank. Why backflush at 15 bar? That's just more stress on everything that's not needed.

One last point- When the OPV activates it does *not* waste water by dumping into your tray. Don't believe me? Pull out your tray while back flushing before you stop the pump. NOTHING is squirting down into your tray until you stop the pump and the three way valve kicks in. If you don't put your drip tray back in before shutting off the pump, you'll see the small amount of water released.
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pookguy88
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Apr 16, 2013, 6:39pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

just a quick question, I just got my machine, installing the water filter... is there supposed to be a click when I install it into the tank? It seems like I just place it there... and I push down with some force but doesn't seem to go much further but there's never a click or anything..... anyone??!?
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